Majestic Warrior

[freddymo]

I wouldn't be surprised he was and I wouldn't be surprised if he won the Belmont. He is an Indy...If one can make a case for WP getting 10f's not so hard to think MW gets 10 or 12 as well.

I really thought this horse was pretty good and a successful 2 year old by Indy isn't the most common occurance. Maybe he is like you say, more like mom?

[SniperSB23]

I thought Circular Quay had absolutely no chance in the Derby last year but not only do I think Majestic Warrior is more likely to be a closing sprinter than CQ but CQ was also FAR more accomplised at this point. I don't really get the buzz around this horse. Plodding past a spent Mayonnaise and Ready's Image after they tried to duel for seven furlongs wasn't anything to get excited about.

[freddymo]

I think the connections and the pedigree lend themself to overreaction, dont you? I am one who swallowed the bait.
Something to be said for a 2 year old grade 1 Indy winner regardless of the race shape.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I knew you would just love the "Billy"!

How do you know he is a closing sprinter? Let's hope your wrong.. I am sure Billy will give it his best shot..

Only Mott's mother and BBB may call him Billy.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I thought Circular Quay had absolutely no chance in the Derby last year but not only do I think Majestic Warrior is more likely to be a closing sprinter than CQ but CQ was also FAR more accomplised at this point. I don't really get the buzz around this horse. Plodding past a spent Mayonnaise and Ready's Image after they tried to duel for seven furlongs wasn't anything to get excited about.

Then why on earth are you excited about the cheaper version (Denis of Cork) of him?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Then why on earth are you excited about the cheaper version (Denis of Cork) of him?

He's already won around two turns and already won in a race where the pace scenario played completely against him. You have to be a closer to win in those circumstances, not a plodder like Majestic Warrior. Barring an unforeseen infusion of speed horses into the Derby picture this year there is no chance of enough of a pace meltdown for a plodder to crack the superfecta even if that plodder turns out to like 10 furlongs which is a big question mark.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He's already won around two turns and already won in a race where the pace scenario played completely against him. You have to be a closer to win in those circumstances, not a plodder like Majestic Warrior. Barring an unforeseen infusion of speed horses into the Derby picture this year there is no chance of enough of a pace meltdown for a plodder to crack the superfecta even if that plodder turns out to like 10 furlongs which is a big question mark.

So he went an extra turn and panel in the Southwest and caught horses that went ridiculously fast on the front and he's not a plodder?

He beat the great Unbridled Vicar at Fair Grounds but he showed heart...BEATING UNBRIDLED VICAR BY A NOSE????!?!?!

Denis of Cork has absolutely no shot in the Derby. I hope he's the the favorite.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

So he went an extra turn and panel in the Southwest and caught horses that went ridiculously fast on the front and he's not a plodder?

He beat the great Unbridled Vicar at Fair Grounds but he showed heart...BEATING UNBRIDLED VICAR BY A NOSE????!?!?!

Denis of Cork has absolutely no shot in the Derby. I hope he's the the favorite.

If Dennis of Cork was a plodder he would not have been anywhere close to the fast pace in the Southwest. Comparing him to Majestic Warrior makes little or no sense. If you like Majestic Warrior that's fine.....but he is completely different type of horse than Dennis of Cork.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

So he went an extra turn and panel in the Southwest and caught horses that went ridiculously fast on the front and he's not a plodder?

He beat the great Unbridled Vicar at Fair Grounds but he showed heart...BEATING UNBRIDLED VICAR BY A NOSE????!?!?!

Denis of Cork has absolutely no shot in the Derby. I hope he's the the favorite.

The point is if Majestic Warrior had the same setup against the great Unbridled Vicar he wouldn't have beat him and the slow pace would have been the excuse. The fact is, Denis of Cork had excuses to lose and got it done in that race even if the time was slow and the competition soft. I don't think he is as good a Derby contender as War Pass and Pyro at this point. I said a couple weeks back I'd take those two against the field and feel pretty good about it. As a third choice though I think Denis of Cork is as good as any and certainly a better option than Majestic Warrior.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If Dennis of Cork was a plodder he would not have been anywhere close to the fast pace in the Southwest. Comparing him to Majestic Warrior makes little or no sense. If you like Majestic Warrior that's fine.....but he is completely different type of horse than Dennis of Cork.

Since when do plodders run seven furlongs in 1:23 flat? If we're going to "make sense" lets go after ridiculous assumptions that result in mockery.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The point is if Majestic Warrior had the same setup against the great Unbridled Vicar he wouldn't have beat him and the slow pace would have been the excuse. The fact is, Denis of Cork had excuses to lose and got it done in that race even if the time was slow and the competition soft. I don't think he is as good a Derby contender as War Pass and Pyro at this point. I said a couple weeks back I'd take those two against the field and feel pretty good about it. As a third choice though I think Denis of Cork is as good as any and certainly a better option than Majestic Warrior.

What about the Southwest? How would he have fared in that race?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He's already won around two turns and already won in a race where the pace scenario played completely against him. You have to be a closer to win in those circumstances, not a plodder like Majestic Warrior. Barring an unforeseen infusion of speed horses into the Derby picture this year there is no chance of enough of a pace meltdown for a plodder to crack the superfecta even if that plodder turns out to like 10 furlongs which is a big question mark.

The colt has had a total of 3 starts with 1 of them health compromised. You are drawing a lot of conclusions from so little data. His second dam was a fairly acomplished router and he sure does have a great trainer in BILLY(for you BBB)..
I worry more about him not having a couple more races in him then if he plods or if he develops a little more turn of foot. He is 6 months older lets see what 08 brings before we label him Saarland 2 the sequel

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Since when do plodders run seven furlongs in 1:23 flat? If we're going to "make sense" lets go after ridiculous assumptions that result in mockery.

Plodding is a running style that is mistakenly used as an insult to horses. It has more to do with how the horse runs the race than how fast they do it. Like other running styles there are both fast and slow plodders.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The colt has had a total of 3 starts with 1 of them health compromised. You are drawing a lot of conclusions from so little data. His second dam was a fairly acomplished router and he sure does have a great trainer in BILLY(for you BBB)..
I worry more about him not having a couple more races in him then if he plods or if he develops a little more turn of foot. He is 6 months older lets see what 08 brings before we label him Saarland 2 the sequel

By no means do I think there is no chance the horse will develop into a legit Derby horse. I just think there are a lot of reasons to think he won't. Considering he looks like the poor man's version of Circular Quay at this point though I find the buzz around him to be puzzling.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Plodding is a running style that is mistakenly used as an insult to horses. It has more to do with how the horse runs the race than how fast they do it. Like other running styles there are both fast and slow plodders.

Majestic Warrior is not a plodder.

1. To move or walk heavily or laboriously; trudge: "donkeys that plodded wearily in a circle round a gin" D.H. Lawrence.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

From a workout standpoint and acknowledging that Philski is better at comedy than cappin, most AP Indy's have little early gas and this homebred is no different. It appears he has never beat a workmate and has been blown away at least twice by maidens, but Mott may now be able to tighten the screws. The Champagne when sent off a New York nickle over even money is a complete toss as MW ran like a "crab" and had hoof issues. Trainers lose sleep over blind quarter cracks and stone bruises and the ultimate diagnosis according to Kinsman was a hoof wall separaration. The benign three furlong works twelve days after his races indicate caution and the string of Saturday works as a sophomore are similar in nature to the work pattern before MW's debut. At any rate this one comes to hand fast and it will be revealing how he works tomorrow or Saturday.

Conclusion: One of a half dozen or so that can get the roses.

Originally Posted by philcski

"I have personally observed his last 14 workouts with my private clocker, and his propensity for lagging early in races seems to translate from his training. I'm concerned to see Mott pacing him in a 5F workout in company then backing up to a 4F drill, while falling one day off schedule (which had been a classic 8-7-6 4-4-5 pattern.) It appears to me he has not matured at the rate one would expect of an early 3YO and perhaps in the care of a more hands on trainer he would be further along the Derby Trail"

Signed,
BBB

The true comedy here is I took the words out of your mouth. I'll book whatever you want on this horse to win the Derby.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Majestic Warrior is not a plodder.

1. To move or walk heavily or laboriously; trudge: "donkeys that plodded wearily in a circle round a gin" D.H. Lawrence.

I'm sure you wouldn't find a definition of closer or stalker that matches the horse racing meanings either. Think of it as one paced then if plodder doesn't match your definition.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'm sure you wouldn't find a definition of closer or stalker that matches the horse racing meanings either. Think of it as one paced then if plodder doesn't match your definition.

Wow.

[blackthroatedwind]

This whole argument is silly. First of all, you're now argueing semantics, and Sniper is right as to how the word " plodder " is used in racing. But, more to the point, being a fan of one horse has no bearing on how one feels necessarily about another. Dennis of Cork has run well in all three of his races and appears to be progressing well towards the Derby. If you don't like him, for whatever reasons, that's fine but he has at least demonstrated an ability to handle two turns and looks like a horse that will handle a distance of ground. Majestic Warrior is a huge question mark who has yet to either run as a 3YO or successfully negotiate any distance beyond 7F. And, when you consider who his very successful dam is, and what her strength was, it's at least not unreasonable to draw a comparison between mother and son. And, until Majestic Warrior disproves that comparison, something he has yet to come even close to doing, being apprehensive about supporting him makes a great deal of sense logically.

Simply put, Dennis of Cork has done nothing wrong and Majestic Warrior, so far, has basically done nothing.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by philcski

The true comedy here is I took the words out of your mouth. I'll book whatever you want on this horse to win the Derby.

How much will you take Phil and what are the odds?