Top 25 3yo's 1987-2007 - Page 16

blackthroatedwind · #**301** 02-28-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athletics005

Compared to the average filly, she was more than very good. Compared to all time greats, she was well below average. Its just a matter of perspective.

So now we compare good horses to average horses to establish their quality?

RolloTomasi · #**302** 02-28-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Actually they might...but why does it only cause cancer in good horses and if something was sprayed why only these 2 stalls and why no other incidents? You would have to believe that other barns would have been sprayed with the same substance and yet there are no reports of an unusual number of cancer deaths at Belmont.

It would be interesting to see if there was at least a disproportionate amount of euthanized horses (for any reason) that were stabled at Belmont during the same time frame.

For the sake of argument, you might only "see" cancer in "good horses" because people are more likely to go the extra mile with their stakes horses as far as diagnosing specifically any illness that befalls them. Less valuable horses who's health spiral out of control are often put down without determining the exact cause all the time. Even Danny Vella thought his filly just had a run-of-the-mill virus until it she didn't get better. Then they pulled out all the stops.

I wonder if NYRA shells out to do necropsies all the horses that are put down in the barn area, like they do in CA.

philcski · #**303** 02-28-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It was an awful field. I bet a Buckram Oak horse whose name escapes me. I think she's still running.

Along the Sea?

CSC · #**304** 02-28-2008, 10:22 PM

Does the thought that some of the greatest horses on this list may have raced on performance enhancing drugs tarish their reputations? We've seen it in baseball, how does one compare Roger Clemons to Bob Gibson, or for that matter Ghostzapper to Secretariat?

Cajungator26 · #**305** 02-28-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

not necessarily. altho it would be a stretch of the imagination to think two horses would come down with the same type cancer at the same time, we all know that bizarre coincidences occur. it's what keeps conspiracy theorists in business.
there is a very rare brain disease...two friends contracted it and died within weeks. it's not contagious, and no one else in either family got it. bizarre, but unconnected. i remember reading about it.

in a way, it's almost like when you buy something you think is rare--and then all of a sudden, you see or hear about it seemingly everywhere...

Speaking of which... just got done watching that movie.

Cannon Shell · #**306** 02-28-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Does the thought that some of the greatest horses on this list may have raced on performance enhancing drugs tarish their reputations? We've seen it in baseball, how does one compare Roger Clemons to Bob Gibson, or for that matter Ghostzapper to Secretariat?

I think there is a greater chance that horses in the 70's were using something far more performance enhancing than horses in our era. While I wasnt around to see 1st hand in the 70's I have some pretty good sources.

CSC · #**307** 02-28-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think there is a greater chance that horses in the 70's were using something far more performance enhancing than horses in our era. While I wasnt around to see 1st hand in the 70's I have some pretty good sources.

That is the problem of comparing horses from different eras, we will never know for certain if horse A could beat horse B. I'm not sure whether a horse runs faster today or not means anything, all we know for certain is that they can only beat whomever they line up against. The rest is speculation. I raised the question when I think of horses trained by alleged substance users as in Frankel or Pletcher. Without that advantage would their horses run as fast? Not likely from this standpoint and just as in the case of Clemons the mere thought has tarnished his legacy forever.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #**308** 02-28-2008, 10:44 PM

I really liked Knight's Templar. I knew that she had died, but I assumed that she had broken down in a race or of some other kind of injury.

I find this very hard to believe as a coincidence because of the rarity of cancer in horses, but there are carcinogenic substances in almost everything....the food you eat even...it depends on your genetic susceptibility to whether you develop cancer or not most of the time unless you are exposed to something incredibly bad.

There was most likely something at Belmont around those two stalls that caused the cancer, but I seriously doubt that management had much to do with it.

Oh well, we'll never really know....

blackthroatedwind · #**309** 02-28-2008, 10:47 PM

Well, that puts this argument to rest.

SniperSB23 · #**310** 02-28-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, that puts this argument to rest.

The scary thing is for once she's making sense. I'd better stop drinking.

paisjpq · #**311** 02-28-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The scary thing is for once she's making sense. I'd better stop drinking.

I guess I better start.

SniperSB23 · #**312** 02-28-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I guess I better start.

Never a bad idea.

The Bid · #**313** 02-28-2008, 11:04 PM

Da Hoss

I think the surface was just being scratched with LITF. I think he would have been an all time great. Just did everything way too easy before getting ill.

Danzig · #**314** 02-28-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The scary thing is for once she's making sense. I'd better stop drinking.

it's that whole blind squirrel/acorn thing.

KirisClown · #**315** 02-28-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerv

This is your winner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW9AG9HSkgU

Dave Johnson had a nice line in there...

"Holy Bull is a champion.. there he is.. and you'll never forget him"

kentuckyrosesinmay · #**316** 02-28-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's that whole blind squirrel/acorn thing.

Squirrels can't even remember where they put the acorns. The only reason they find where they put them in the first place is because of their incredible sense of smell, not sight...

They don't have to be blind to make your point.

Danzig · #**317** 02-28-2008, 11:16 PM

where's dahoss when you need him?

Cannon Shell · #**318** 02-28-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

That is the problem of comparing horses from different eras, we will never know for certain if horse A could beat horse B. I'm not sure whether a horse runs faster today or not means anything, all we know for certain is that they can only beat whomever they line up against. The rest is speculation. I raised the question when I think of horses trained by alleged substance users as in Frankel or Pletcher. Without that advantage would their horses run as fast? Not likely from this standpoint and just as in the case of Clemons the mere thought has tarnished his legacy forever.

The problem that I have is that the testing is so much better now that almost no positive now would be caught under the same test of earlier eras. There is a perception that all our horses now are under the influence of medications of some kind but the truth is that there were far more powerful substances being used in the 70's in particular than there are now. That is not to say that every trainer was using something but drugs like sublimaze and etorphine were used and they are far greater performance enhancers than any steroids or minute clembuterol traces found. Also there were many horses being treated with Lasix except for a long time it was not even published. The thought that horse racing is a dirtier game now simply ignores the reality of earlier eras.

RolloTomasi · #**319** 02-28-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I really liked Knight's Templar. I knew that she had died, but I assumed that she had broken down in a race or of some other kind of injury.

When I was a little girl in Poland, I had a pony. He was beautiful.

And I loved him.

Quote:

I find this very hard to believe as a coincidence because of the rarity of cancer in horses, but there are carcinogenic substances in almost everything

I'm not gonna sit in a tepid pool of my own filth. Millions of microbes having sex all around me...

Quote:

....the food you eat even...

I prepared this whole meal as I bathed...

Quote:

it depends on your genetic susceptibility to whether you develop cancer or not most of the time unless you are exposed to something incredibly bad.

...and laughter is the best medicine...

Quote:

There was most likely something at Belmont around those two stalls that caused the cancer, but I seriously doubt that management had much to do with it.

Something happened in that shedrow...it was almost as if it were something...from above...

Junior mint?

Quote:

Oh well, we'll never really know....

How far to the left of the E are we now?

The best thing thing to do is just...'pop'...put it outta your mind...

Port Conway Lane · #**320** 02-29-2008, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I know he just misses the year range but there were few 3 year olds that were as good as this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-MRD9QutB8

I'm still waiting for Eternal Prince to soften him up....

The video on this one is very poor but it shows the heart this horse had.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuYas-bB2iY

I'd love to see a video of the 85 Monmouth Handicap, to this day the most impressive performance I've seen by a confirmed frontrunner.