CRIST: Changes dilute Cup's appeal - Page 4

ddthetide · #61 03-01-2008, 07:01 AM

if they feel a need to split the event, why not make a juvenile day and make all those races on friday or make it a saturday- sunday event.
as it stands now instead of Ladies Day call it BC Oaks Day.

blackthroatedwind · #62 03-01-2008, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddthetide

if they feel a need to split the event, why make a juvenile day and make all those races on friday or make it a saturday- sunday event.
as it stands now instead of Ladies Day call it BC Oaks Day.

I essentially agree. Add the Turf Sprint and Marathon to bookend the card and you have a decent Pick-6 of somewhat related races headlined by two big events.

Far too intelligent a concept.

Payson Dave · #63 03-01-2008, 07:43 AM

A couple of random thoughts on the subject....
Handle drives the game..participation of the fan base largely drives the handle.
Fan base falls into several categories... Hardcore, casual, newbie.
Newbies evolve to become Casuals...Casuals evolve to become Hardcore
Increasing the pool of Newbies and expediting the fan evolution process may well be keys to the long term survival of the sport. IMHO promotion, education, and incentive are keys to both bringing in more newbies and expediting fanbase evolution.
Kentucky Oaks day has become a hugh event in Louisville and to some extent with the hardcore fans of the sport...it is not that big with the non-Louisville casual fans of the sport.
Newbies are generally created by attending live racing and to a lesser extent by media coverage of the sport... in either case it is the casual and/or hardcore fan that frequently gets the newbie initially involved.
The Breeders Cup Friday card is not likely to add many new fans to the game...the on track attendance at the host track may improve via more of the Saturday crowd coming out a day earlier,but to a large extent that was happening anyway.
Any increase in Friday handle at non-host track venues will not likely be coming from new fans.

AeWingnut · #64 03-01-2008, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

I hope not but...........................
I don't think the Messiah, Rags to Riches will come again.
I think she is done.

More is sometimes less
and the new format is just greed

Linny · #65 03-01-2008, 09:01 AM

The newbie to casual to hardcore description is correct but remember, only a very few ever become hardcore. Drive away 2 or 3 of them and 1000 newbies doesn't make up for it.

I also am not sure how placing a bunch of (supposedly) important events on a weekday will draw NEW fans. Several people who post here (presumed hardcore fans/players) have said that they wouldn't bother with Friday. If that's the case, what the devil makes BC think that some receptionist from Pasadena with no connection to racing will skip work on Fri to go to the track???!!!

Places like Louisville, Lexington, Saratoga and DelMar have sufficient casual fans and locals who want to see and be seen at the big events to fill the stands. They have tradition and location in their favor. I grew up in Albany and Saratoga has been part of my conciouness ALL MY LIFE. I'm sure kids in Lexington feel the same about Keeneland. With the BC being (supposedly) a moving event, how does one establish the tradition? Places like I mentioned rely on local tradition, parents taking kids to the the races. Kids choosing to continue to attend, bringing their kids someday.

citycat · #66 03-01-2008, 09:10 AM

I am most disappointed with the renaming of the Distaff. I admit to being a big fan of Personal Ensign. I think most would agree that her race in the Distaff is one of the best moments in horse racing history. To have that race renamed as the Ladies Classic just doesnt seem right to me. As many have already posted I think they again miss the boat on the intelligence of the racing fan. Ladies Classic is geared more towards the person (not generally the racing fan). I guess the word Distaff was too difficult for the mass population.

justindew · #67 03-01-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

You can literally hear the conversation in the BCL meeting when, OR EVEN IF, the question came up...

"The existing fans? Are you kidding? They'll watch and bet whenever and wherever we put it and whatever we call it..."

But if they said that, they're correct.

King Glorious · #68 03-01-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

But if they said that, they're correct.

They'd be 100% correct. Look at Kentucky Oaks day. Sure, there are probably better ideas that they can come up with and hopefully, they will continue to be open to tinkering with it to find what is the absolute best situation. But these changes aren't going to have any negative impact on the fans that watch the races at all. None.

blackthroatedwind · #69 03-01-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

They'd be 100% correct. Look at Kentucky Oaks day. Sure, there are probably better ideas that they can come up with and hopefully, they will continue to be open to tinkering with it to find what is the absolute best situation. But these changes aren't going to have any negative impact on the fans that watch the races at all. None.

That's just so wrong that it's almost depressing.

There will be many people who don't see the Friday races that will be denied seeing the races decided Saturday that belong as part of the marquis event. Instead they will see inconsequential filler.

Some of us " fans " aren't enamoured with turf sprints....now we are forced to deal with one if we want to play Pick-4s on Saturday ( involving other true championship races ). I know this fan won't be playing.

King Glorious · #70 03-01-2008, 12:27 PM

Why does the Kentucky Oaks work on Friday but people think that the audience for the Friday BC races won't?

blackthroatedwind · #71 03-01-2008, 12:30 PM

The Kentucky Oaks Day is basically a holiday in Louisville. Do you think Pasadena is planning a similar situation?

The Kentucky Oaks is big in Louisville, and it is part of the one race that captures the attention of non-racing fans, and yet it's supporting races are still probably missed by the vast majority of racing fans.

sumitas · #72 03-01-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Personally I have no problem with Friday races though i do understand the people that disagree. I have seen Oaks day turn from a big day to a huge event so Friday events are not impossible. i dont like the shuffling of the races though. I was in favor of adding races but I think they should remain secondary until they have a little history behind them and 'earn' thier way onto the big day. You cant possibly hope to make Friday as big as Sat and as such the traditional races should have been kept intact with Friday being a preview of sorts, especially since many people who travel are already in town. The truth I'm afraid is that this will give them an excuse to raise prices on friday to the level of the Saturday prices which cuts into many peoples budgets. One tip off that the powers that be in racing dont care about current customers is the absense of effort to repeal the unfair withholding rules. Until recently I had never heard a racetrack exec even acknowledge this and it hurts their bottomline too.

I agree with maintaining a traditional Saturday lineup. Friday should be for the newbies. Hey, some people work Saturdays too. Not everybody works Mon-Fri. So the Friday makes sense to me for the newer races only.

Payson Dave · #73 03-01-2008, 12:38 PM

I use the term "fan" loosely...perhaps "wagering participant" is more appropo...

justindew · #74 03-01-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Kentucky Oaks Day is basically a holiday in Louisville.

....and Churchill gets 50,000 or more on Thursday before the Oaks. And schools are closed on Friday.

sumitas · #75 03-01-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

....and Churchill gets 50,000 or more on Thursday before the Oaks. And schools are closed on Friday.

Never say never.

Danzig · #76 03-01-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's just so wrong that it's almost depressing.

There will be many people who don't see the Friday races that will be denied seeing the races decided Saturday that belong as part of the marquis event. Instead they will see inconsequential filler.

Some of us " fans " aren't enamoured with turf sprints....now we are forced to deal with one if we want to play Pick-4s on Saturday ( involving other true championship races ). I know this fan won't be playing.

this is the biggest problem i see with these moves, i agree completely. they've watered down saturday terribly.

sumitas · #77 03-01-2008, 01:02 PM

The way I look at it...the more the merrier. I like giving the horses an opportunity to compete. I may not agree with the exact lineup, but generally I feel a star can be born in any race. I'm positive about the 2 days.

Dunbar · #78 03-01-2008, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Racing always misses the boat with their marketing so why would they get it right this time? They simply seem to forget that most racing fans are smarter than the average joe ...yet they continue to try to dumbdown the game for mass appeal. Racing is complicated and a good part of the allure is the challenge of trying to figure it out.

I would have agreed with this before observing how racing fans showed very little enthusiasm when presented with the opportunity to bet with a 4% takeout last summer, prefering instead to "figure out" how to beat a 16-20% takeout elsewhere.

--Dunbar

brockguy · #79 03-01-2008, 02:32 PM

With so many years of stability in the Breeders Cup, you have just so many changes over the past number of years that it has gotten a bit crazy. I suppose most people are thinking what the hell have they got in store for next year??

Cannon Shell · #80 03-01-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I would have agreed with this before observing how racing fans showed very little enthusiasm when presented with the opportunity to bet with a 4% takeout last summer, prefering instead to "figure out" how to beat a 16-20% takeout elsewhere.

--Dunbar

I couldn't blame anyone for not betting Ellis Park if they offered free bets. Even though a lot of fans read the form and dont really know what they are doing, at least they can read unlike the vast majority of the NASCAR fan base (sorry Cajun and Slotdirt)