Bush trying to keep waterboarding

[SCUDSBROTHER]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080308/...B_Lh79QmWs0NUE


I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THIS.How are you gunna keep Americans from being tortured this same way? I guess he sees it as necessary torture,but everybody is gunna rationalize using it.Goes against American values.They've basically turned us into the same dogs as them.This is what I don't get about a so called "Christian" guy.I can't see Christ doing this.Most of the Christians in HEE HAW LAND are hypocrites like this.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080308/...B_Lh79QmWs0NUE


I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THIS.How are you gunna keep Americans from being tortured this same way? I guess he sees it as necessary torture,but everybody is gunna rationalize using it.Goes against American values.They've basically turned us into the same dogs as them.This is what I don't get about a so called "Christian" guy.I can't see Christ doing this.Most of the Christians in HEE HAW LAND are hypocrites like this.

They dont waterboard American prisoners, they behead them. The thought that you or i have any idea what is necessary is laughable. Also the thought that it goes against American values is in direct dispute with the truth that we have used torture in extracting information from prisoners since the country was founded, as does the rest of the world.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Also the thought that it goes against American values is in direct dispute with the truth that we have used torture in extracting information from prisoners since the country was founded, as does the rest of the world.

To torture(for whatever reason)is against American Values."We" (American people ) have not been in favor of this,and never will be.If the government does it,then it is going against the values of the American people.It may indeed be "in direct dispute" with the truth(that our government is torturing,) but the fact remains that American Values DON'T include the acceptance of torture.For one thing,it is totally against Christ's teachings.So,in the very least,GEEDUBBYA is pissing on his religion when he does this.You can't just keep calling yourself a METHODIST CHRISTIAN if you're gunna keep supporting torture.This guy is gunna go down as the biggest Hypocrite American ever.He is a disgrace....He is a hypocrite,and acting like a dog.He is about as far from "Christian" as he can get(without getting arrested.)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

To torture(for whatever reason)is against American Values."We" (American people ) have not been in favor of this,and never will be.If the government does it,then it is going against the values of the American people.It may indeed be "in direct dispute" with the truth(that our government is torturing,) but the fact remains that American Values DON'T include the acceptance of torture.For one thing,it is totally against Christ's teachings.So,in the very least,GEEDUBBYA is pissing on his religion when he does this.You can't just keep calling yourself a METHODIST CHRISTIAN if you're gunna keep supporting torture.This guy is gunna go down as the biggest Hypocrite American ever.He is a disgrace....He is a hypocrite,and acting like a dog.He is about as far from "Christian" as he can get(without getting arrested.)

I understand that you are probably under the influence and you live in a socialist place but shouldn't a lefty like you be PRAISING Bush for NOT injecting his own religious views in a matter of national security? Of course not because it does not fit your agenda. If he wanted to ban it and mentioned his religion you would be up in arms about seperation of Church and State and how he was using the bible to make policy. Bush did not invent waterboarding and it is obvious that people who are far more privy to its useage are calling for it. It would be a far more popular move to ban it publically than continue to use it anyway (like Sir Hillary would do) but the guy took a stand that you dont like and now he is a hypocrite? Maybe you should volunteer to do some research on waterboarding? Maybe as a test subject?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I understand that you are probably under the influence and you live in a socialist place but shouldn't a lefty like you be PRAISING Bush for NOT injecting his own religious views in a matter of national security? Of course not because it does not fit your agenda. If he wanted to ban it and mentioned his religion you would be up in arms about seperation of Church and State and how he was using the bible to make policy. Bush did not invent waterboarding and it is obvious that people who are far more privy to its useage are calling for it. It would be a far more popular move to ban it publically than continue to use it anyway (like Sir Hillary would do) but the guy took a stand that you dont like and now he is a hypocrite? Maybe you should volunteer to do some research on waterboarding? Maybe as a test subject?

He is a hypocrite.The man is constantly pandering to religious conservatives.It's a main reason he got elected.It's against his religion to torture.It's against American values to torture. He is against stem cell due to religion.Against abortion due to religion.Against gay marriage (due to abortion.)He does use religion in his decision making.That's why he is such a complete "in total" hypocrite.He is ignoring Christianity after he ran on Christian themes like "pro-life,"and "family values." When he likes his religion's views,he courts them,but he ignores them with supporting torture.He should be getting all kind of flack from hee haw bible belt about this.If they were really Christian people,then they would stick up for Christ's views in this case,and be outraged that this fellow Christian is a torturing dog.This is why I have so little respect for the south.For the most part,it's a bunch of damn hypocrite scum.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

To torture(for whatever reason)is against American Values."We" (American people ) have not been in favor of this,and never will be.If the government does it,then it is going against the values of the American people.It may indeed be "in direct dispute" with the truth(that our government is torturing,) but the fact remains that American Values DON'T include the acceptance of torture.For one thing,it is totally against Christ's teachings.So,in the very least,GEEDUBBYA is pissing on his religion when he does this.You can't just keep calling yourself a METHODIST CHRISTIAN if you're gunna keep supporting torture.This guy is gunna go down as the biggest Hypocrite American ever.He is a disgrace....He is a hypocrite,and acting like a dog.He is about as far from "Christian" as he can get(without getting arrested.)

You have to keep religion out of this. He is doing what he thinks is best to protect the country. All these bleeding hearts want us to play by some sort of old time American value rulebook, when the rest of the world does whatever hell it wants. The Palestinines went into a school the other day and killed seven students. They rigged up retarded women a few months ago with pipe bombs. Terrorist groups will use whatever means they have to. I think that the FBI, CIA, and Armed Forces shold have the green light to do whatever is necessary in attempt to gain information on possible attacks US properties around the world. These people have no value for life, so why should we show them any sort of compassion when trying to gain information out of them.

[pmacdaddy]

Putting what he thinks is best for troops and security ahead of what people at Church may think. I certainly don't have a problem with that.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Let me be clear.If you're a Christian,then there is no alternate view here.Torture is not in line with Christ's teachings.So,all these people claiming to be Christians should be outraged,but they won't be(because they are f'n hypocrites.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Putting what he thinks is best for troops and security ahead of what people at Church may think. I certainly don't have a problem with that.

You can rationalize anything.White Southern Christians rationalized the killing of Blacks.NOW THEY RATIONALIZE torture.We are so far of course now.A Christian majority nation backing torture...beautiful.Christians in name only.Really a bunch of Christian Dogs.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Putting what he thinks is best for troops and security ahead of what people at Church may think. I certainly don't have a problem with that.

That's what the Germans and Japanese thought too(when they followed their leaders.)I ain't following this pig.I want to know how he calls himself a Methodist Christian,because he is acting like a dog or a pig(not a Christian.) He is a national disgrace,and will go down as the torture president,and mainly the hypocrite president.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

That's what the Germans and Japanese thought too(when they followed their leaders.)I ain't following this pig.I want to know how he calls himself a Methodist Christian,because he is acting like a dog or a pig(not a Christian.) He is a national disgrace,and will go down as the torture president,and mainly the hypocrite president.

Scuds....
the church used to burn folks at the stake and inflict all manner of torture upon them, unfortunately this is nothing new! I agree with you about Bush however...

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Scuds....
the church used to burn folks at the stake and inflict all manner of torture upon them, unfortunately this is nothing new! I agree with you about Bush however...

Yea,when did the church do it? You say that a lot,but how long ago? Do they do it now? I don't talk about the evil Moslems used to do.I talk about what they are doing presently,and this so called "Christian" is acting like a common dog,and I want to see these born againers etc. be just as outraged about this as they are about other things they find against their religion.They need to be religiously consistent(which is what he is totally not like........this is a hypocrite president.)

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yea,when did the church do it? You say that a lot,but how long ago? Do they do it now? I don't talk about the evil Moslems used to do.I talk about what they are doing presently,and this so called "Christian" is acting like a common dog,and I want to see these born againers etc. be just as outraged about this as they are about other things they find against their religion.They need to be religiously consistent(which is what he is totally not like........this is a hypocrite president.)

Whether the church did it yesterday or a couple centuries ago, my point remains....the teachings of Christ take a back seat when personal gain comes to town. "Christians" like Bush, Falwell and the like are horrified about abortion but support capital punishment and killing folks with zeal...nothing new here and my only point is that GWB is a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

....the teachings of Christ take a back seat ......

This is the point.This is a majority Christian country,but there is more outrage about OLD TESTAMENT stuff than when guys like Bush do things that are in direct opposition to Christ's teachings. There is just a complete lack of concern for things said by CHRIST.For BUSH to do what he has done(a Christian demanding that torture be used) shows you he thinks the majority of Christians will ignore Christ's teachings about this.It's total hypocrisy,and if Christians aren't upset about it,then they are simply hypocrite Christians(same as this dog.)

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This is the point.This is a majority Christian country,but there is more outrage about OLD TESTAMENT stuff than when guys like Bush do things that are in direct opposition to Christ's teachings. There is just a complete lack of concern for things said by CHRIST.For BUSH to do what he has done(a Christian demanding that torture be used) shows you he thinks the majority of Christians will ignore Christ's teachings about this.It's total hypocrisy,and if Christians aren't upset about it,then they are simply hypocrite Christians(same as this dog.)

I agree...and believe me, there will be no outcry here! I believe in free will and responsibility for one's acts. I believe that I am responsible for everything I have done in my life...good and bad...things I did as a teenager and young man as well as what I did yesterday and what I will do tomorrow; why should the church get a pass just cause they stopped torturing and killing and replaced those things with a philosophy of fear and superiority? Bush is nothing more than a continuation of the hypocracy!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

This is the point.This is a majority Christian country,but there is more outrage about OLD TESTAMENT stuff than when guys like Bush do things that are in direct opposition to Christ's teachings. There is just a complete lack of concern for things said by CHRIST.For BUSH to do what he has done(a Christian demanding that torture be used) shows you he thinks the majority of Christians will ignore Christ's teachings about this.It's total hypocrisy,and if Christians aren't upset about it,then they are simply hypocrite Christians(same as this dog.)

this country isn't a theocracy, and religion shouldn't have anything to do with it.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree...and believe me, there will be no outcry here! I believe in free will and responsibility for one's acts. I believe that I am responsible for everything I have done in my life...good and bad...things I did as a teenager and young man as well as what I did yesterday and what I will do tomorrow; why should the church get a pass just cause they stopped torturing and killing and replaced those things with a philosophy of fear and superiority? Bush is nothing more than a continuation of the hypocracy!

Well,for one thing,whoever did those acts isn't alive.You are.I don't blame the religion for his support of torture.I blame him for ignoring Christ. I have no use for most all of the Old Testament,anyways.That's why I say I wished they would pay attention to Christ (instead of stuff he didn't even write.) You say the church has a philosophy of fear and superiority? Show me religions that don't.What are they.It ain't the big 3 or 4.Maybe BUDDHISM.This is not a thread about how great (or not) Christianity itself is.It's about hypocrisy.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this country isn't a theocracy, and religion shouldn't have anything to do with it.

Every national election is impacted hugely by religion.He pandered to religious Conservatives.They are his base.Now he thumbs his nose at Christ's teachings,and quite frankly it's time for his base to call him on it,or they are religious hypocrates (just like he is.) Every time the Conservatives want a good turn out in a state they have a referendum on gay marriage on the ballot.We wouldn't ever have had Bush as the president if religious conservatives weren't dominating blocks of states for him.If religion doesn't matter then why is he against stem cell etc.?

[Danzig]

from what i read on the veto, waterboarding isn't even in use right now by the cia, or the military--both groups have banned it.

the bill he vetoed would limit the cia to the same 19 interrogation techniques the military uses. a veto does not mean the cia would suddenly allow waterboarding. i don't know what they currently use, but apparently he doesn't want the cia to lose some things it currently does allow--and right now, that does NOT include waterboarding.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Every national election is impacted hugely by religion.He pandered to religious Conservatives.They are his base.Now he thumbs his nose at Christ's teachings,and quite frankly it's time for his base to call him on it,or they are religious hypocrates (just like he is.) Every time the Conservatives want a good turn out in a state they have a referendum on gay marriage on the ballot.We wouldn't ever have had Bush as the president if religious conservatives weren't dominating blocks of states for him.If religion doesn't matter then why is he against stem cell etc.?

there is stem cell research, just no fetal stem cell research funded with federal money. to be honest, that suits me just fine-but not due to religion. the federal govt was never supposed to include things like that.
i neither know, nor care, who bush considers his base. this veto would be for what is regarded as for the best for this nation and the safety of its citizens.