Afleet Alex

RollerDoc · #1 08-02-2006, 05:47 PM

Newbie here and this is my first post. I'm extremely entry level in comparison to most of you who post here.

I have been a fan of Triple Crown horseracing most of my life and always make sure those three Saturday afternoons that I am watching all the festivities leading up to the race and am always compelled. Other than that, I'm not really involved.

I placed my first wager on a horse race at the 2005 Preakness and won by picking Afleet Alex. The reason I was proud of myself for winning is that I watched the Kentucky Derby and wasn't really familiar with any of the horses and Bellamy Road was the favorite. As I watched the special on the Kentucky Derby and watched the race, I said to myself that Afleet Alex looked like the best horse of this group (especially the most athletic). So I couldn't wait for the Preakness to bet him. His recovery along with Jeremy Rose's control after the clipping of Scrappy T's heel was scary for all of us. So it was so exciting when he won. Of course I bet him in the Belmont too. That was such a great ride he had in the Belmont, waiting in the back and then passed by Giacomo as if "he were standing still" I think was the announcers call.

So here is my question after that long qualification of me. Afleet Alex lost the Kentucky Derby by only one length (I think), won the Preakness, and won the Belmont. Plus I believe he had a few wins prior to the Derby. Why didn't Afleet Alex win Horse Of The Year and the horse that did win, how was that determined a better horse? Thanks for any insight!

Pointg5 · #2 08-02-2006, 05:52 PM

AA won the 3yo Eclipse, but he did not beat older horses, and St. Liam won The Donn, Stephen Foster, Suburban, and the Breeders Cup Classic, so he beat all of the best horses older and younger.

RollerDoc · #3 08-02-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pointg5

AA won the 3yo Eclipse, but he did not beat older horses, and St. Liam won The Donn, Stephen Foster, Suburban, and the Breeders Cup Classic, so he beat all of the best horses older and younger.

I understand that the Breeders Cup is a major race. Shouldn't the Triple Crown Races have more weight to them? I don't recall the name St. Liam even racing in the Triple Crown, why not?

I am curious for your opinion that if Afleet Alex did not retire after the Belmont, could he have beaten St. Liam?

Thanks for your response.

#4 08-02-2006, 06:00 PM

The Breeders Cup races are more important.

#5 08-02-2006, 06:01 PM

The HOY is basically given to the BC Classic winner unless a 3yr old can win the TC. Afleet Alex couldn't beat Giacomo in the big one so it is hard to give him HOY over the older horses.

He got what he deserved, the 3YO Eclipse, but personally I don't think he would have beaten Saint Liam even had he not gotten hurt. The 3yr olds were just a terrible group that year, so beating them doesn't really count for much in the HOY race.

No knock on AA, but he beat garbage in the Preakness and Belmont. Scrappy T and Giacomo were nothing special, and the Belmont was so bad a maiden ran third.

RollerDoc · #6 08-02-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by six perfections

The Breeders Cup races are more important.

What does that mean? I'm confused. Other than the Breeders Cup, only the Triple Crown Races are covered on national TV (not counting ESPN, etc). I really am a newbie!

#7 08-02-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

What does that mean? I'm confused. Other than the Breeders Cup, only the Triple Crown Races are covered on national TV (not counting ESPN, etc). I really am a newbie!

Fall racing means more. The 3yr olds no longer are running against 3yr olds, they have to take on the older horses. As a general rule of thumb, although I expect Bernardini to prove me wrong, the older horses usually are better than the 3yr olds.

Scurlogue Champ · #8 08-02-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I understand that the Breeders Cup is a major race. Shouldn't the Triple Crown Races have more weight to them? I don't recall the name St. Liam even racing in the Triple Crown, why not?

I am curious for your opinion that if Afleet Alex did not retire after the Belmont, could he have beaten St. Liam?

Thanks for your response.

We will never know if Afleet Alex could have beaten St. Liam, but I can tell you one thing for certain.....

There is an absolute brilliant monster named Bernardini running right now that could urinate on both Afleet Alex and St. Liam with his leg in the air.

RollerDoc · #9 08-02-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boldruler

The HOY is basically given to the BC Classic winner unless a 3yr old can win the TC. Afleet Alex couldn't beat Giacomo in the big one so it is hard to give him HOY over the older horses.

He got what he deserved, the 3YO Eclipse, but personally I don't think he would have beaten Saint Liam even had he not gotten hurt. The 3yr olds were just a terrible group that year, so beating them doesn't really count for much in the HOY race.

No knock on AA, but he beat garbage in the Preakness and Belmont. Scrappy T and Giacomo were nothing special, and the Belmont was so bad a maiden ran third.

Now this pretty much clears it up for me. Was St. Liam older than three? So I guess that's the reason he didn't run in the Triple Crown Races. The only disappointment I have from your post is it doesn't sound like Afleet Alex is ranked very high compared to past years.

#10 08-02-2006, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Now this pretty much clears it up for me. Was St. Liam older than three? So I guess that's the reason he didn't run in the Triple Crown Races. The only disappointment I have from your post is it doesn't sound like Afleet Alex is ranked very high compared to past years.

AA was very very good. He might have even beaten the top older horses if he continued to progress. Moot point though.

RollerDoc · #11 08-02-2006, 06:23 PM

There is an absolute brilliant monster named Bernardini running right now that could urinate on both Afleet Alex and St. Liam with his leg in the air.[/quote]

But would Bernardini be a "brilliant monster" if Barbaro doesn't pull up lame? Unfortunately, we could never know the answer.

#12 08-02-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

There is an absolute brilliant monster named Bernardini running right now that could urinate on both Afleet Alex and St. Liam with his leg in the air.

But would Bernardini be a "brilliant monster" if Barbaro doesn't pull up lame? Unfortunately, we could never know the answer.[/quote]

They both appeared to be monsters, although Bernardini might be a little better on the dirt. Barbaro though had the look of a great dirt horse and arguably the best turf horse many have ever seen.

Scurlogue Champ · #13 08-02-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boldruler

But would Bernardini be a "brilliant monster" if Barbaro doesn't pull up lame? Unfortunately, we could never know the answer.

They both appeared to be monsters, although Bernardini might be a little better on the dirt. Barbaro though had the look of a great dirt horse and arguably the best turf horse many have ever seen.

I was being facetious

Pointg5 · #14 08-02-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I understand that the Breeders Cup is a major race. Shouldn't the Triple Crown Races have more weight to them? I don't recall the name St. Liam even racing in the Triple Crown, why not?

I am curious for your opinion that if Afleet Alex did not retire after the Belmont, could he have beaten St. Liam?

Thanks for your response.

I liked AA alot and was very impressed by him, who wouldn't be, but I am not even sure he was the best 3yo by the end of the year. I would give that to Flower Alley.

St. Liam was a 5yo, he switched trainers at 4 and he really improved, some horses aren't ready for the rigors of the Triple Crown, so that's why you wouldn't see them in the Triple Crown races.

The racing is really starting to get going again. Flower Alley is running Saturday and so will alot of good horses between now and the Breeders Cup, alot of these races will be on ESPN. Always refreshing to see Racing from someone new, I have been into it, since 1998, and love it more every year.

Rupert Pupkin · #15 08-02-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Now this pretty much clears it up for me. Was St. Liam older than three? So I guess that's the reason he didn't run in the Triple Crown Races. The only disappointment I have from your post is it doesn't sound like Afleet Alex is ranked very high compared to past years.

The Triple Crown Races are restricted to 3 year olds. If you wanted to compare 3 year olds during the Triple Crown to humans, I would say the 3 year olds are like 18 year old humans in terms of physical maturity. They definitely have not yet fully matured or reached their full potential. So the best 3 year old in the country is usually not the best horse in the country. There are usually a few good 4 or 5 year olds that can beat the best 3 year old, but not always. Once in a while you will see a great 3 yeard old who can beat the older horses.
Afleet Alex looked like a really good horse. If he didn't get hurt, he may have had a shot against Saint Liam.

I agree with the other posters that Bernardidni looks like a really good horse. He is definitely in the top few best horses in the country and may even be the best. We will find out in a couple of months when he faces older horses. If I personally had to pick one horse to own for the rest of the year, I would definitely pick Bernardini.

Scav · #16 08-02-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The Triple Crown Races are restricted to 3 year olds. If you wanted to compare 3 year olds during the Triple Crown to humans, I would say the 3 year olds are like 18 year old humans in terms of physical maturity. They definitely have not yet fully matured or reached their full potential. So the best 3 year old in the country is usually not the best horse in the country. There are usually a few good 4 or 5 year olds that can beat the best 3 year old, but not always. Once in a while you will see a great 3 yeard old who can beat the older horses.
Afleet Alex looked like a really good horse. If he didn't get hurt, he may have had a shot against Saint Liam.

I agree with the other posters that Bernardidni looks like a really good horse. He is definitely in the top few best horses in the country and may even be the best. We will find out in a couple of months when he faces older horses. If I personally had to pick one horse to own for the rest of the year, I would definitely pick Bernardini.

not Henny?...Would be an interesting selection..Both have serious upside because they haven't been squeezed dry yet....I actually would take Henny the more I think about it. Sprint division isn't that tough, 3 year old or even the older, where Bern is going to get feed to the wolves in the gold cup, I still think Flower Alley dusts this horse, we will see if he is the same Flower as he was last year, FA loves Toga and Pletcher should have him LOADED for the Whitney

Rupert Pupkin · #17 08-02-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

not Henny?...Would be an interesting selection..Both have serious upside because they haven't been squeezed dry yet....I actually would take Henny the more I think about it. Sprint division isn't that tough, 3 year old or even the older, where Bern is going to get feed to the wolves in the gold cup, I still think Flower Alley dusts this horse, we will see if he is the same Flower as he was last year, FA loves Toga and Pletcher should have him LOADED for the Whitney

I like Henny but I would always take a distance horse over a sprinter. The big money is in the classic races not the sprints. Henny will be running for $2 million in the BC Sprint but Bernardidni will be running for $5 million in the Classic.

Danzig · #18 08-02-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by six perfections

The Breeders Cup races are more important.

depends on who you ask.

alex didn't win the horse of the year because he never competed in open company. altho the tc is very prestigious, it is still restricted to three year olds. had alex won just one race against older he may have won horse of the year. maybe.

AeWingnut · #19 08-02-2006, 08:48 PM

Horses go through form cycles. Most everyone under the sun with a three yr old (stake horse) is pointing that horse to the Kentucy Derby. The Pinnacle of all the races for 3 yr olds. After he has reached the mountain top he may plateau and remain good enough to beat the same kind of horses in the Preakness or Belmont but rarely both. After that he has no where to go but down.

Afleet Alex like many triple crown horses has no insentive to keep racing. Their stock in the breeding shed can only go down if they continue and prove they cannot beat older horses.

However there are always exceptions. Funny Cide is a gelding and continues to be a decent horse but not a grade I horse.

The host of this website Steve has a million stories to tell and I think you will be glad if you stick around and read his stuff.

miraja2 · #20 08-02-2006, 10:51 PM

Well it does seem like you have a lot to learn, but don't let ANYONE tell you that Afleet Alex was not a monster. If he would have kept running I think he would have beaten up on Flower Alley and St Liam last year. Jeremy Rose had finally learned how to ride the horse (use that amazing one-run ability he had). In the last 4 races of his career Rose rode him that way in the Arkansas, Preakness, and Belmont and he flat out destroyed those fields. Rose gave him a ride in the Derby that was technically okay, but did not fit the horse's running style and it got Alex beat. After that race Rose learned his lesson and if the horse hadn't been injured I believe he would have added victories in the Travers and the BCC to his already impressive accomplishments.

Also just so you know for comparison sake, the Breeders' Cup Classic has a larger purse than all three Triple Crown races COMBINED. It is pretty damn important.