This is how you can ruin a good horse

[Scav]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/93162.html

Polonius eyeing Santa Anita Derby......

This horse just won the Pasadena Stakes at Santa Anita, first time stretching out on the lawn. It was a very impressive performance IMO and this horse has a turf future if managed correctly. This move, going to the SA Derby, is not managing the horse correctly.

[RolloTomasi]

That's what they said about Castledale, The Deputy, and Hello. Not to mention the turf capabilities of the first 3 home in Santa Anita's other marquee synthetic event, the Big Cap.

As far as campaigning goes, at worst they're forgoing another $75K turf stakes later in the meet. If the Virginia Derby was the same weekend, it might be a bit more foolish.

[Danzig]

horses usually do ok making a switch from turf to synthetic, i see no reason not to make the attempt. i don't see how it's mismanagement.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

That's what they said about Castledale, The Deputy, and Hello. Not to mention the turf capabilities of the first 3 home in Santa Anita's other marquee synthetic event, the Big Cap.

As far as campaigning goes, at worst they're forgoing another $75K turf stakes later in the meet. If the Virginia Derby was the same weekend, it might be a bit more foolish.

THEY ARE RUSHING this horse into this spot. His last race was very good, and this horse would be a Grade 1 turf winner if they would just relax. This horse would easily win the Secretariat Stakes at Arlington (400k) unless some Euro nut horse comes over.

All this horse is going to do is get fried on the lead against some seriously seasoned horses on the synethic tracks, why risk the future to see IF he can handle it.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Scav

THEY ARE RUSHING this horse into this spot. His last race was very good, and this horse would be a Grade 1 turf winner if they would just relax. This horse would easily win the Secretariat Stakes at Arlington (400k) unless some Euro nut horse comes over.

You just handed him a Grade 1 race over 2 furlongs further than he's ever run, scheduled for over 5 months from now, in hand by open lengths, and you're telling the connections to relax?

What exactly is your idea of "relaxing" by the way? Encasing the colt in a Plaster-of-Paris cast and hiring Drillbit Taylor to guard him 24/7 until Arlington opens?

All this horse is going to do is get fried on the lead against some seriously seasoned horses on the synethic tracks, why risk the future to see IF he can handle it.

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of speed lining up for the race, what with Yankee Bravo being added to the speed-laden trio of Georgie Boy, Colonel John, and El Gato Malo.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You just handed him a Grade 1 race over 2 furlongs further than he's ever run, scheduled for over 5 months from now, in hand by open lengths, and you're telling the connections to relax?

What exactly is your idea of "relaxing" by the way? Encasing the colt in a Plaster-of-Paris cast and hiring Drillbit Taylor to guard him 24/7 until Arlington opens?

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of speed lining up for the race, what with Yankee Bravo being added to the speed-laden trio of Georgie Boy, Colonel John, and El Gato Malo.

So your idea is better, which is go to a 9f Grade 1 on a track he has never won over, instead of maybe running in a Grade 3 on the lawn at a mile, or maybe running in an allowance race on the synethic to just check and see if he would take to the rubber?

[Linny]

If the 'classic" colts are weak, folk come out of the wood work. I can't balme them. Look at Adriano. He looked like a Derby colt on the Ply yesterday. On dirt, he was a disaster.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Linny

If the 'classic" colts are weak, folk come out of the wood work. I can't balme them. Look at Adriano. He looked like a Derby colt on the Ply yesterday. On dirt, he was a disaster.

They have tried it with Adriano a couple times, that horse won't crack the top 10 in the Derby but they are FORCING IT.

They don't have to force Polinus into this, instead they could take their time. It is such a novel idea to try and be patient with a good horse.

It isn't like this horse is seasoned and has 8 races under his belt. SA Derby will be his 5th race I think.

Everyone's dream is to get to the Derby, this I understand, but they could easily win some races with this guy and put the money they win from this horse, into some yearlings and develop their Derby horse, instead of potentially ruining this horse.

[Riot]

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of speed lining up for the race, what with Yankee Bravo being added to the speed-laden trio of Georgie Boy, Colonel John, and El Gato Malo.

Had a bit of a nightmare fantasy the other day, it was about getting a Triple Crown winner in 2008, started off with a Derby completed in 2:05.43 .....

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

You just handed him a Grade 1 race over 2 furlongs further than he's ever run, scheduled for over 5 months from now, in hand by open lengths, and you're telling the connections to relax?

What exactly is your idea of "relaxing" by the way? Encasing the colt in a Plaster-of-Paris cast and hiring Drillbit Taylor to guard him 24/7 until Arlington opens?



Yeah, there seems to be a lot of speed lining up for the race, what with Yankee Bravo being added to the speed-laden trio of Georgie Boy, Colonel John, and El Gato Malo.

The highlighted part might be the funniest and best thing I've ever read on here.

I can't blame the connections for trying this. It's painfully obvious that turf horses run very well on this stuff and with how fragile these horses are, you have to take advantage of the opportunities as they present themselves instead of worrying about five months down the line.

It doesn't matter if the SA Derby will only be his fifth race or his 30th. What was the Arkansas Derby for Curlin? Seems he turned out ok. The Arkansas Derby was the 6th start for Smarty Jones. He did ok. How many starts did Seattle Slew have going into the TC?

Also, it's not like he's giving away a ton of seasoning to the others. How many starts has Colonel John had? El Gato Malo? The SA Derby will be the 6th for CJ and the 5th for EGM.

[letswastemoney]

I would enter him in the SA Derby if I had that horse, just based on how well turf horses do on SA synthetic. Decent horses come rarely. Who knows if they'll have this opportunity again? They would regret not trying.

[Scav]

More so, SPEED hasn't done **** on Santa Anita's synethic, thus making this even more mind boggling.....

[Scav]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The highlighted part might be the funniest and best thing I've ever read on here.

I can't blame the connections for trying this. It's painfully obvious that turf horses run very well on this stuff and with how fragile these horses are, you have to take advantage of the opportunities as they present themselves instead of worrying about five months down the line.

It doesn't matter if the SA Derby will only be his fifth race or his 30th. What was the Arkansas Derby for Curlin? Seems he turned out ok. The Arkansas Derby was the 6th start for Smarty Jones. He did ok. How many starts did Seattle Slew have going into the TC?

Also, it's not like he's giving away a ton of seasoning to the others. How many starts has Colonel John had? El Gato Malo? The SA Derby will be the 6th for CJ and the 5th for EGM.

CJ and EGM have won GRADED stakes on this surface going a route of ground, this horse that we are discussing has won a ungraded turf mile race. COMPLETELY different

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Scav

CJ and EGM have won GRADED stakes on this surface going a route of ground, this horse that we are discussing has won a ungraded turf mile race. COMPLETELY different

How will they find out if he can if they don't try simply because he hasn't yet?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

How will they find out if he can if they don't try simply because he hasn't yet?

How about a nw2 going a mile on the synethic for starters?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Scav

So your idea is better, which is go to a 9f Grade 1 on a track he has never won over, instead of maybe running in a Grade 3 on the lawn at a mile, or maybe running in an allowance race on the synethic to just check and see if he would take to the rubber?

It's not my idea, it's the trainer's, who assumingly watches the colt train every day over the very surface the Santa Anita Derby is run on.

Nonetheless, I think the idea of running in the Santa Anita Derby is a better idea than running in a Grade 3 on the grass...cuz the latter doesn't exist.

The allowance is shaky, too, as a 2nd condition is unlikely to fill this time of year. But let's say it does, and further still, let's say he crushes in it like Big Brown did at GP. Guess what? No graded earnings for the Derby!

The owners would be so pissed they might let Drillbit take over the training.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Scav

How about a nw2 going a mile on the synethic for starters?

I suppose they could go that way. But if he's good enough, he can do it now. If he's not, a nw2 will not make him good enough. I believe in sink or swim, not wasting races to try and see. How stupid would they feel if they went in a nw2 race and he crushes them but now they don't have time to go in the SA Derby or to get ready for Kentucky? They'll find out the same thing in the SA Derby as they would find out in an allowance. Either he'll like it and run well or he won't.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

It's not my idea, it's the trainer's, who assumingly watches the colt train every day over the very surface the Santa Anita Derby is run on.

Nonetheless, I think the idea of running in the Santa Anita Derby is a better idea than running in a Grade 3 on the grass...cuz the latter doesn't exist.

The allowance is shaky, too, as a 2nd condition is unlikely to fill this time of year. But let's say it does, and further still, let's say he crushes in it like Big Brown did at GP. Guess what? No graded earnings for the Derby!

The owners would be so pissed they might let Drillbit take over the training.

This aint the trainer speaking. The guy just won HIS FIRST STAKES. This is all owner. This horse has to improve about 20 lengths to even be in Georgie Boy's radar.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I suppose they could go that way. But if he's good enough, he can do it now. If he's not, a nw2 will not make him good enough. I believe in sink or swim, not wasting races to try and see. How stupid would they feel if they went in a nw2 race and he crushes them but now they don't have time to go in the SA Derby or to get ready for Kentucky? They'll find out the same thing in the SA Derby as they would find out in an allowance. Either he'll like it and run well or he won't.

HOW many horses can withstand the Derby grind? Not many, and many good ones get ruined because of it. There are many just in the recent future that we can name that got toasted trying to get to the Derby or running in the Derby when they shouldn't have even been there.

Unfortunetly, I think this one is on that path now....

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Scav

HOW many horses can withstand the Derby grind? Not many, and many good ones get ruined because of it. There are many just in the recent future that we can name that got toasted trying to get to the Derby or running in the Derby when they shouldn't have even been there.

Unfortunetly, I think this one is on that path now....

So should we just cancel the race because no horses should be there because there is a chance that a horse can be ruined? Even horses that should be there can get toasted by it (Bellamy Road, Bandini). My grandfather used to say "if you are scared, buy a dog." I think that this horse has earned a shot. In such a subpar year, just about any horse with four legs has earned a shot.