Eight Belles to the Derby? - Page 2

Danzig · #21 04-13-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Not saying she's going to win but considering how her figures stack up against this crop they have every right to enter her.

i agree, and have no idea what rags to riches has to do with eight belles. also she doesn't need the lead, as she showed in her last. i'd like to see her, and felt til just after the fantasy that she might show up. but jones and porter seemed hesitant because her last race was so close. but i guess a few days of thinking about it has changed their minds.

SniperSB23 · #22 04-13-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Such as who?

Aside from Sky Beauty and Yanks Music (a decade ago), you can pretty much bank on the Oaks influencing the Mother Goose trifecta going on about 20 years now.

Shug and Jerkens to name a few. Usually have top class 3yo fillies, rarely worry about the Oaks.

RolloTomasi · #23 04-13-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Shug and Jerkens to name a few. Usually have top class 3yo fillies, rarely worry about the Oaks.

Shug?

How bout Dispute, Yell, My Flag, Glitter Woman?

He isn't one to skip the Oaks if he has the right horse. Nearly ran Boca Grande last year, in fact.

Kasept · #24 04-14-2008, 05:58 AM

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

cmorioles · #25 04-14-2008, 06:01 AM

It isn't a big issue, but I've always thought fillys should have to have graded earnings against males to have them count.

Kasept · #26 04-14-2008, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It isn't a big issue, but I've always thought fillys should have to have graded earnings against males to have them count.

CJ,

That's a great point... I've never heard or seen that brought up.

cmorioles · #27 04-14-2008, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

CJ,

That's a great point... I've never heard or seen that brought up.

Thanks...just seems they get a free pass by racing in "restricted" races.

letswastemoney · #28 04-14-2008, 06:11 AM

it's true they get a free pass. but we would be deprived the opportunity to see something special if they didn't let this happen. as long as it's only 1 or 2 that get to try it, i don't think it's a big deal either.

zippyneedsawin · #29 04-14-2008, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It isn't a big issue, but I've always thought fillys should have to have graded earnings against males to have them count.

I was thinking the same thing. It's not like the colts even have a chance at those earnings.

zippyneedsawin · #30 04-14-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

I agree. If a Jones trainee should be heading to the Derby, it's that one.

zippyneedsawin · #31 04-14-2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostcode

Enough about Beyer Speed Figures, Eight Belles has no shot to win the Derby, none....Rags to Riches was a genetic freak last year and if people think she will go into this group and run with Big Brown, War Pass and Gayego up front and hold off the closers. I hope she does run she will take a lot of money after Rags winning last year in the Belmont. There is more to the Kentucky Derby than speed figures.

Eight Belles would not be facing Street Sense, Hard Spun, Curlin, or Any Given Saturday... that's what the connections for R2R was looking at last year. Not quite the same competition in 2008 as it was in '07... IMO.

Danzig · #32 04-14-2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It isn't a big issue, but I've always thought fillys should have to have graded earnings against males to have them count.

interesting point. but they also use two year old earnings, which are restricted races. i don't see a change in the near future.

Samarta · #33 04-14-2008, 08:07 AM

I am no fan of the connections of EB, but after watching all the preps since the beginning of the year, I think they may be sitting on the best 3 year old in the country. Now I'm a little hesitant in saying for 2 reasons, the first is the fact that she doesn't get out of the gate well. That's a disaster waiting to happen in the Derby. Race could be over two jumps in. The second is I didn't like the last two rides she had with Dominguez. The Honeybee, I just thought he wrapped up on her way too early (I know, nice problem to have) and in the Fantasy, he basically did the same thing and Alina had something left and he had to get after her and then for whatever reason she lugged in real bad at the finish. Steve I think your assessment of RP is right on and he is the one making the call, just as he made the call about Dominguez and not Thompson. I think if Jones had is way,Thompson would still be on this mount. But after all that is said, she is the best 3 year old I've seen this year. (taking Big Brown out of the mix now because of the 3 races)

cmorioles · #34 04-14-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

interesting point. but they also use two year old earnings, which are restricted races. i don't see a change in the near future.

Yes, but all the horses eligible for the Derby could run in those 2yo races. They all can't run in filly races.

cowgirlintexas · #35 04-14-2008, 08:25 AM

The percentage of fillys that ever get to the level to even be considered for the Derby is so low that I don't think there needs to be a amount won against the males to have be eligible. I think it takes a very special filly to beat the boys in any race let alone the Kentucky Derby. Too bad RTR was'nt running this year, we could of had our first possible Triple crown winning filly.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #36 04-14-2008, 09:11 AM

This year's three year old filly crop is just as good as the boys.....with that said; please run her in the Oaks! She's better suited and most of all, possibly better financially for me.

smuthg · #37 04-14-2008, 10:32 AM

I found this interesting...

"Bob Holthus, who's preparing Pure Clan for the Kentucky Oaks, said that, of the 3-year-olds in training, the sheets gave Big Brown the best number (-1) for his Florida Derby victory, and Eight Belles the second best number (+3) for her Fantasy victory."

cmorioles · #38 04-14-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

This year's three year old filly crop is just as good as the boys.....with that said; please run her in the Oaks! She's better suited and most of all, possibly better financially for me.

I don't see how anyone could think they are better than the colts. It isn't like any of the fillies are lighting the world on fire either.

philcski · #39 04-14-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

Initially I agreed with you, but I've reconsidered my stance. Eight Belles has every right to take a shot, based on the boys' results. While Proud Spell might be a 'more likely' winner based on the likely race shape, Eight Belles might actually be the better of the two fillies.

If they both go in the Oaks, I may just use only those two in every multirace wager. Jones has an absolutely STACKED hand...

hailrazer · #40 04-14-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

If Eight Belles goes Saturday instead of Friday, it is Rick Porter and NO ONE ELSE making the decision. Even the consideration of her in the Derby has Porter's ham-handed fingerprints all over it. If Jones were making the call and was forced to run one of the 2 in the Derby, it would be Proud Spell, who is far better suited for the task.

This is from Larry Jones to John Piesen on running Eight Belles a couple of days ago. Could be LJ backing up the owners wishes, but if he genuinely thinks Eight Belles is the best 3 year old running this year, I think you try the Derby and let Proud Spell do the work in the Oaks.

http://www.nationalracemasters.com/a...ingle&hd_id=05

I'm still leaving out hope that Eight Belles will go to the Kentucky Derby.

Trainer Jones, conservative by nature, believes that Eight Belles is the season's best 3-year-old, regardless of gender, but he feels that Eight Belles -- unlike 1988 Derby winner Winning Colors -- does not have sufficient speed to clear the Derby field at the first turn.

"I spoke to D. Wayne the other day," Jones was telling me this morning, "and he told me that Winning Colors was so fast from the gate, and made the lead so easy, that she didn't know if there were boys or girls or whatever behind her.

"On the other hand, Eight Belles doesn't have that kind of gate speed. It takes her a while to get going. And if she would draw 17 or 18, that would really be a problem."

That said, if Eight Belles passes the Derby, she and Proud Spell conceivably could run one-two in the Kentucky Oaks...just as two other Jones' fillies ran one-two in an Oaklawn hundred-grander on Wednesday.