Zayat trouble

[pweizer]

I have read on another board that Zayat is seriously considering running both Z Humor and Massive Drama in the Derby. As both have the earnings to do so, this could be very bad news for Visoinaire, Bob Blackjack, Dennis of Cork, and Big Truck.

Paul

[philcski]

and he wonders why everyone thinks he's an idiot.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by philcski

and he wonders why everyone thinks he's an idiot.

Someone will talk him out of it, although, personally, I would love it, because it again dwindles my choices even more and more.....

[Kasept]

Not entirely correct or wrong. Romans explained that Halo Najib is the targeted Derby horse. But, Massive Drama could possibly run if Halo Najib were to get pushed out on earnings.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not entirely correct or wrong. Romans explained that Halo Najib is the targeted Derby horse. But, Massive Drama could possibly run if Halo Najib were to get pushed out on earnings. Said Massive Drama doing very well since return from Dubai.

i like massive drama a lot... cashed on him his maiden win, exacta with tiz it i think.... but anyway....

would he have any chance at all in the derby ?
i'd say no way

[ArlJim78]

Halo Najib and Massive Drama, two horses solidly entrenched on my auto-toss list should they run in the derby.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Halo Najib and Massive Drama, two horses solidly entrenched on my auto-toss list should they run in the derby.

halo is the worst of the 2 in my opinion, but they both have to be throw outs, even to run 1-2-3-4, i doubt either of them can do anything

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i like massive drama a lot... cashed on him his maiden win, exacta with tiz it i think.... but anyway....

would he have any chance at all in the derby ?
i'd say no way

^^^ "moment of clarity".

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kasept

^^^ "moment of clarity".

Emphasize "moment".

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not entirely correct or wrong. Romans explained that Halo Najib is the targeted Derby horse. But, Massive Drama could possibly run if Halo Najib were to get pushed out on earnings.

He has the semi-legit Z Fortune solidly in the field, no? I try not to root against guys like Zayat, who actually made his own money rather than being born into petrodollars, but he has a MASSIVE ego and it's frustrating to watch him micromanage his stock whereas if he left the choices up to the trainer he'd be doing far better (aka like he's done with his crack sprinter J Be K.)

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by philcski

He has the semi-legit Z Fortune solidly in the field, no? I try not to root against guys like Zayat, who actually made his own money rather than being born into petrodollars, but he has a MASSIVE ego and it's frustrating to watch him micromanage his stock whereas if he left the choices up to the trainer he'd be doing far better (aka like he's done with his crack sprinter J Be K.)

the other z.... z humor has a better chance then these 2

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

the other z.... z humor has a better chance then these 2

Remember Sharp Humor ? He was in great position in the first turn of the 06 KD. Then he broke his knee which ended his career. Churchill has received a lot of critcism over the years and ther are a lot of "dirt" horses that don't Likr the track. So we'll see.

[cakes44]

Z Humor could run a Sedgefield/Limehouse like 4th or 5th in the Derby with a pretty good trip just because he's a grinder and no one else is any good. I can't think of any scenario where Massive Drama wouldn't run 18th, 19th, or 20th, even with this awful group.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by philcski

He has the semi-legit Z Fortune solidly in the field, no? I try not to root against guys like Zayat, who actually made his own money rather than being born into petrodollars, but he has a MASSIVE ego and it's frustrating to watch him micromanage his stock whereas if he left the choices up to the trainer he'd be doing far better (aka like he's done with his crack sprinter J Be K.)

Like the fine job the Pyro folks are doing..

[philcski]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Remember Sharp Humor ? He was in great position in the first turn of the 06 KD. Then he broke his knee which ended his career. Churchill has received a lot of critcism over the years and ther are a lot of "dirt" horses that don't Likr the track. So we'll see.

ENOUGH OF THE F*CKIN CHEAP SHOTS ON DIRT TRACKS. It didn't end his career, he came back and ran later that season. The shed took him away, not a catastrophic injury. I'd love to hear who you say criticizes the dirt at CD, because it's one of the best surfaces out there. Apparently you don't actually watch the races at Keeneland where no-talent horses win every other race thanks to the synthetic crap they installed there.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Zayat's handling of Massive Drama ranks second to only the connections of Denis of Cork as worst handling of a Derby prospect. Massive Drama could be an okay sprinter. Instead he decides to send him to Dubai, where he is trounced and now he is under consideration for the Derby? Good idea.

I actually had no problem with the way Denis Of Cork was handled at all.

They put the horse in what they believed to be the race that represented the path of least resistance - he was an odds on favorite in a Grade 2 stake with a 500K purse after all.

Could they have predicted a paceless race - with an outside post - over an inside-speed track beforehand?

I guess it was public knowledge that the pace setter after a 1/4 mile was run had 7 wins and 3 seconds in the 10 races on the '07 Illi Derby card - but that still didn't mean the track had to be like that again the following year.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Just because it didn't work doesn't mean it was a bad idea.

I will never knock someone for putting their horse in the most logical lucrative spot.

How many softer spots for 500K will there ever be than the '08 Illi Derby?

[cakes44]

The Pennsylvania Derby and the West Virginia Derby would answer that question. However, that answer is neither here nor there because they aren't derby preps.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

The fact that it didn't work means it was poor management.

Since when did you become such a results queen?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

They went from the possible Derby favorite after the Rebel, to not even making it maybe a few weeks later. It was very poor management.

I'm not sure he'd have beaten Sierra Sunset in the Rebal - SS didn't have Silver Edition pestering him the whole way like in the Southwest - but I'd say it was a coinflip between him and SS for the Rebel win if he goes there.

In order to be the Derby favorite over Big Brown - he'd have needed to win the Rebel, and wheel back and win the Ark Derby impressively. That was unlikely.

Denis Of Cork has four career races - and three Beyers in the 80's. Come on Hossy - he was no killer.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

However his campaign this year should be what people look NOT to do in the future. How can you deny that?

Basically, all that happened was that the connections decided to pass the Rebel because they didn't want to run him two more times in a short window before the Derby. Fine, if they think they have a horse who can compete in all three legs of the triple crown series, I don't blame them.

Now, you are left with The Wood or The Illi Derby as your options.

You pass on the bigger tougher field, and go where you will be the odds on favorite in a short field.

What is it you disagree with most - not putting in two more starts before the TC Series or opting for the Hawthorne race over the Wood?

Unless you can predict unforeseen pace scenerios and track biases long in advance - the horse was spotted correctly.