War Pass out with fracture

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by CSC

Since I am relatively new here, why does this seemed to have touched a nerve here? It seems to me most of Trainer's mentioned here have had some sort of criticism aimed at them, but none of this depth of reaction...

There are a few subjects that - for whatever reason - inspire incredibly heated debate here. Off the top of my head this list includes:

1) Lost in the Fog
2) Polytrack
3) Perfect Drift
4) Nick Zito
5) Bernardini

There are probably more that I am forgetting, but basically these subjects generate big arguments because there are certain individuals here that have very strong opinions either for or against these topics. Once they stake out their extreme positions, other people argue strenuously with them. In the case of Zito, it is basically just whodey taking every conceivable opportunity to take a shot at Zito. Add in the fact that Zito has some staunch supporters (and in some cases, friends) on this board, and you have yourself a recipe for acrimony.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Huh?
I agree that he probably won't be back, but what do you mean by the races getting longer this year? Did I miss something?
Has the 7f King's Bishop been transformed into a 12f prep for the BC marathon?
Is the 8f "Met Mile" now the "Met Five Mile?"
Is the 8.5f Dwyer now a steeplechase event?

OK, the ones that could actually improve his value. He's proven he can mile, but he needs to stretch on out to improve his value in the shed.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Recapturetheglory is very fast?

He sure is. 2nd fastest dirt beyer in the Kentucky Derby field. His doesn't have blazing speed but he has solid early speed and he can stay. Horse is improving and is very dangerous if he gets loose on the lead, which he shouldn't, but if you got a triple digit beyer and you are improving....

[Riot]

Think of this: LaPenta and Lane's End give the horse time off, and then bring him back into training late fall/winter. Bring to racing a fantastic 4-year-old miler, on a campaign to the Breeders Cup in the fall ...

Oh, now I am seeing pretty white unicorns. And poppies ...

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

He sure is. 2nd fastest dirt beyer in the Kentucky Derby field. His doesn't have blazing speed but he has solid early speed and he can stay. Horse is improving and is very dangerous if he gets loose on the lead, which he shouldn't, but if you got a triple digit beyer and you are improving....

Do you watch many races at Hawthorne?

[hockey2315]

Anyone else think we'd be more likely to see him back at some point if the Breeder's Cup wasn't being run on synthetic?

Originally Posted by miraja2

Huh?
I agree that he probably won't be back, but what do you mean by the races getting longer this year? Did I miss something?
Has the 7f King's Bishop been transformed into a 12f prep for the BC marathon?
Is the 8f "Met Mile" now the "Met Five Mile?"
Is the 8.5f Dwyer now a steeplechase event?

The Dwyer has basically become a grade 2 race that nobody cares about. The Met Mile means he has to face older horses. The King's Bishop is a nice race if you need a grade 1, but he doesn't. There is no race he can win this year that will increase his value at stud. He is by Cherokee Run. Everybody already knows he is essentially an 8f horse.

This is basically a call to be made by Lane's End. Highly unlikely LaPenta is interested in winning anything left on the table for this horse.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

The Dwyer has basically become a grade 2 race that nobody cares about. The Met Mile means he has to face older horses. The King's Bishop is a nice race if you need a grade 1, but he doesn't. There is no race he can win this year that will increase his value at stud. He is by Cherokee Run. Everybody already knows he is essentially an 8f horse.

This is basically a call to be made by Lane's End. Highly unlikely LaPenta is interested in winning anything left on the table for this horse.

Wow.

Originally Posted by miraja2

Do you watch many races at Hawthorne?

I remember hearing the same thing about War Emblem and he did it at sportsman's park which had an even worse bias.

The fact is he has a 102 beyer and destroyed 2 solid horses. He is a fast animal.

You can also argue that Gulfstream Park is a speed favoring track. I don't hear anyone saying Big Brown isn't a fast animal.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

You can also argue that Gulfstream Park is a speed favoring track. I don't hear anyone saying Big Brown isn't a fast animal.

Hmmmmm.....interesting point.
I think that might be because Big Brown is a quality stakes horse and Recapturetheglory stinks.

[Mike]

Are we all sure Recapturetheglory needs the lead? I may be hoping he can lay off the pace when the big day comes, but this War Pass withdrawal does help Big Brown and will prevent that 3-1 someone mentioned might be possible for him

Originally Posted by miraja2

Hmmmmm.....interesting point.
I think that might be because Big Brown is a quality stakes horse and Recapturetheglory stinks.

First of all Recapturetheglory doesn't stink. Not only is he an improving horse with a 102 beyer but as a 2yr old he ran a solid race at Churchill finishing second to Cool Coal Man, who is a very nice dirt horse, winning the Fountain of Youth beating Monba, Court Vision, and Adriano.

Recapture is also a seasoned horse that will be making his 3rd start off the layoff.

I won't be betting Recapture but he is a fast horse that will be a huge pace factor. If a horse like BB goes with him he likely will not be there at the end.

As for Big Brown, he is a quality stakes horse but he still only has won at Gulfstream Park, unless you count a turf race. He also will have no work over the track, so the "quality" stakes horse still has yet to prove he is anything more than a horse for the course, just like you are saying about Recapture.

[johnny pinwheel]

always felt this horse had distance limitations anyway. zito should be smarter than me so i won't question that. but these super "fast" horses rarely win at classic distances any way. hows big brown supposed to be helped ? i see him as the same kind of animal, plus you already know hes got problems .

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No he's not.

Sorry. I like to make my opinions based on facts. His 102 beyer in a race where the two horses that ran behind him ran their usual mid 90's beyers, makes me believe he is a fast horse. Facts are facts.

[the_fat_man]

Yet another example of a what will prove to be a popular thread that is not directly about handicapping.

While it's unfortunate that the horse broke down, he wasn't winning the Derby.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Yet another example of a what will prove to be a popular thread that is not directly about handicapping.

While it's unfortunate that the horse broke down, he wasn't winning the Derby.

Most of this board isn't about handicapping. The Paddock isn't Selections, nor Triple Crown Archives. Room for anything related to horse racing at Steve's house.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Benevolus

Sorry. I like to make my opinions based on facts. His 102 beyer in a race where the two horses that ran behind him ran their usual mid 90's beyers, makes me believe he is a fast horse. Facts are facts.

the track was a conveyor belt. the race was over at the first turn. There is more to horse racing than speed figures.

For the critics of Recapturetheglory who say he is not fast. He has the second fastest dirt beyer and second fastest rag out of all 3yr old dirt efforts.

Big Brown's Best Beyer 106
Recapturetheglory 102.

Big Brown's best Rag 2
Recapturetheglory best rag 4.

[AeWingnut]

sorry War Pass is injured. That is never a good thing.

So... who gets in that wasn't?

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

the track was a conveyor belt. the race was over at the first turn. There is more to horse racing than speed figures.

There is more to horse racing but not more to determining if a horse is fast or not. Recapturetheglory is a fast horse and if Big Brown bumped heads with him early you could kiss both of them goodbye. If I was BB I would rather have War Pass in the derby than not have him in there. If Bob doesn't take to the dirt a horse like Recapture could be out there all alone.