Big Brown, Big Red and IEAH

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Then again there is the direct explanation for events in the world.....lol. Another country heard from...

I don't understand.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have actually worked up a quick translation of the initial post for those not willing to read it in its entirety.....



I have very little perspective on the top horses of the game over even the last 10 years, but I will pick the horse generally considered the best of the last half century, and completely inaccurately compare Big Brown to him.

All that was needed was perhaps a cheap shot at Red for not trying and winning on the turf to complete the masterpiece.

isn't it easier for somebody to just say..I love Big Brown..I think he is capable of incredible speed, although we have only seen it a couple of times.. And perhap he will dazzle us in 3 weeks.. I guess the internet makes everyone brave

[CSC]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I don't think IEAH gives two figs for what racing fans want. Like any conglomerate, they're in this to make money. Glory and adulation is great, but it doesn't buy things, so I doubt we'll see Big Brown after the Belmont.

Which is why, though I've been waiting to see a Triple Crown since the first Derby I can remember (1983), I'm so lukewarm on this one. I can't believe it. I know, I know, don't blame the horse for his connections, but if there's someone who cares even less what I think than IEAH does, it's Big Brown.

(Or maybe I'm just mad at myself for not forking out the $$ for reserved seats back in March. I'll be eating sour grapes while I'm smooshed in with 100,000 people in three weeks. 'Cause, lukewarm as I am, I know I'm still gonna go.)

Then after he wins the Triple Crown because really I don't see anyone from that group that can beat him if he runs his race. It will be almost impossible to go to any message board because Big Brown will be proclaimed the greatest horse since Citation and or Secretariat. And that to me is just not right...Get the 'excuse my language' there is no other way to put it...barf bag ready gang.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by fpsoxfan

Disclaimer: I'm just the messenger.

With that said, I thought this quote by Baffert was pretty interesting

"This is the best horse I've seen since I've been in the business."


I'd have to say that's a brave statement by Mr. Baffert.

I heard a lot of folks talk about Smarty Jones the same way..I loved Smarty but when Birdstone went by him realty hit me square in the face!

[CSC]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I heard a lot of folks talk about Smarty Jones the same way..I loved Smarty but when Birdstone went by him realty hit me square in the face!

I think Baffert is pumping IEAH for business, from the amount of derby entries he has had of late it may be a smart move to use hyperbole.

[freddymo]

Baffert has plenty of clients with money..I think trainers are people too. They get caught up in the hype just like everyone else. There is plenty of reason to think Big Brown can be something very very special. The issue is he hasn't done anything so particularly amazing to suggest he is anything but a super nice grade 1 colt.

It's one thing to be a Hall of Framer it's another thing to be Babe Ruth

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm not sure what number is bigger.....the number of horses Gary Stevens rode or the number of best horses he ever rode.

[CSC]

I think Baffert is a colorful guy and he is great for the game, but honestly there are some things he says that I hold very little credence to.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not sure what number is bigger.....the number of horses Gary Stevens rode or the number of best horses he ever rode.

War Chant or Brocco come to mind lol

Actually I would vote for Silver Charm

[blackthroatedwind]

I wish Baffert had horses in every year's TC races. He's great fun.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

War Chant or Brocco come to mind lol

Actually I would vote for Silver Charm

I'll say one thing else about Gary Stevens......in his prime he was a great rider. One of the best I have ever seen.

[freddymo]

So does he

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'll say one thing else about Gary Stevens......in his prime he was a great rider. One of the best I have ever seen.

Big Brown is the best horse that Gary Stevens has not ridden.

[ArlJim78]

it just goes to show you that the hyperbole runs deep, even amongst people inside the business. take with a big grain of salt what you hear from them and make up your own mind apart from the hysteria of the moment.

[ELA]

People will laugh at Baffert's comments, just like they laughed at Desormeaux's proclamation (notice how people just aren't laughing quite as hard) -- in part because they think the comments are melodramatic, and in part because I think some people think they know better.

If Big Brown wins the Belmont and retires -- for whatever reason, real, fabricated, or whatever, he will have won the Triple Crown. Put an asterisk next to his name or don't. That's up to you. But it won't change the fact that he won it. If he wins, keeps going, doesn't win, keeps going, etc. -- people will always have an easy target here. The trainer and owners are an easy target, and always will be. If it wasn't that, there are plenty of other aspects that could easily be critisized.

Anyway, here's a horse who is getting this sport and business noticed a bit -- for good reasons and bad. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Eric

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by CSC

Then after he wins the Triple Crown because really I don't see anyone from that group that can beat him if he runs his race. It will be almost impossible to go to any message board because Big Brown will be proclaimed the greatest horse since Citation and or Secretariat. And that to me is just not right...Get the 'excuse my language' there is no other way to put it...barf bag ready gang.

Win or lose, I don't think he'll run after the Belmont. I can't imagine any way for his value to increase as a stud- I don't see running in any of the summer classics or in the BCC making any difference to his value.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Win or lose, I don't think he'll run after the Belmont. I can't imagine any way for his value to increase as a stud- I don't see running in any of the summer classics or in the BCC making any difference to his value.

Dutrow already said running a race like the Haskell would be pointless as it would do nothing for his value. He said if the horse is sound and the owners want to run him after the Belmont he would just run the Travers and BC Classic.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by ELA

People will laugh at Baffert's comments, just like they laughed at Desormeaux's proclamation (notice how people just aren't laughing quite as hard) -- in part because they think the comments are melodramatic, and in part because I think some people think they know better.

If Big Brown wins the Belmont and retires -- for whatever reason, real, fabricated, or whatever, he will have won the Triple Crown. Put an asterisk next to his name or don't. That's up to you. But it won't change the fact that he won it. If he wins, keeps going, doesn't win, keeps going, etc. -- people will always have an easy target here. The trainer and owners are an easy target, and always will be. If it wasn't that, there are plenty of other aspects that could easily be critisized.

Anyway, here's a horse who is getting this sport and business noticed a bit -- for good reasons and bad. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Eric

I think we're all aware that if he wins the Belmont he wins the TC. the question here on this thread wasn't about criticism of his owners, it is simply do you feel that comparisons to Secretariat are in order at this point given the mediocre competition he's faced?

jim

[CSC]

Here's a list of horses he's ridden:

Winning Colors
Thunder Gulch
Silver Charm
Singspiel
Da Hoss
Editor's Note
Hennessy
Soul of the Matter
One Dreamer
Bertrando
Golden Attraction
Brocco
Quest for Fame
In Excess
Farma Way
Steinlen
Turkoman
Broad Brush
Point Given
Silverbulletday
Serenas Song
Escena
Victory Gallop
Buddy Gil
Rock Hard Ten

[ArlJim78]

i would like to see that list include the best BSF and sorted.