House Subcommittee Hearings

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by Kasept

So in other words, 'league office efficacy' is subject to social, economic and political pressures and circumstances. Hmmm. This differs tremendously from the way racing is run how?

How could a central office be effective anyway when the states have all the power?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by otisotisotis

But Steve, this segmented, fractious industry does nothing but encourage outside pressures because of a percieved (and I think, real) disconnect with any solid, central orgizational structure.
Many people on this board beat up politicians and political groups for their self-interested points of view, and at the same time only wonder what this industry can do for them.
The time is long passed for a national regulating authority to oversee all things thoroughbred, and maybe the threat to put an end to interstate wagering would be the best motivator to make groups work together.

Then again, I may win the lottery tonight...

The issue with any central authority figure is who will run it, how much will it cost, how large will the organization be, etc. What about the states like Florida where the racing regulations are actually state laws? If a Fed board using the threat of cutting off simulcasting mandates that they change their laws what happens then? It is not that simple to do that. What happens that during the process to change the law or create a new law some yahoo attaches something totally unreasonable to the racing law? Then it gets defeated becuase of the amendment added and the state goes dark? The ironic part of the use of the IHA is that the track have virtually no control over medication or testing yet they are the ones being threatened with the loss of the signal. This whole hearing was a setup. Regardless of what side of the issue you are on (not that there should even be sides) you have to admit that the whole process was contrived. I saw it first hand in KY with the wife. This is just a repeat of that whole process.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by FGFan

If you could a bried synopsis of what he said, I missed it.
Actually I thought he might be a good representative, guess not.

He said trainers should be taken out of the equation and they have no right in the signal disputes. He said a bunch of totally wrong crap about simulcasting and 'off shores'... I'm telling you... he's gone around the bend.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

How could a central office be effective anyway when the states have all the power?

It may wind up being a states rights issue in the end. The idea that a federal law banning steroids will be effective is questionable unless all samples are tested under the same protocals using the same kits, spending the same amount per test or having them all tested at the same lab.

[Travis Stone]

Horse racing fans are unique. We find things on a daily basis which are wrong, flawed or screwed-up. We call them out. We complain. We post to message boards. We write letters to the editor. We take a hiatus from wagering etc.

Now, the government, from afar, says, "Wait a second, there's so much wrong and nothing is being done. Let's look into it."

And our answer, is their logic, reasoning, approach, witness-list and questions are totally off base.

It kind of reminds me of a playground fight. The teachers aide tries to break it up, she drops threats, separates the instigators and brushes off her hands. Only to have the fight break out again, and again, and again. Now the principle says, "Wait a minute, this current system doesn't work, let me intervene."

Racing is a multi-billion industry which has become an industry of greed, near-sightedness and stagnation. The fact someone, for once, decided to hold our feet to the fire, is a good thing. Or maybe I'm just looking at this wrong. At the very least, hopefully it becomes a catalyst for reform.

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It may wind up being a states rights issue in the end. The idea that a federal law banning steroids will be effective is questionable unless all samples are tested under the same protocals using the same kits, spending the same amount per test or having them all tested at the same lab.

I agree that there must be standards and accuracy to protect the trainers. There also needs to be severe penalties and not the the Pletcher/Assmussen 6 month vacation/suspension while your second in command runs your barn.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

...questionable unless all samples are tested under the same protocals using the same kits, spending the same amount per test or having them all tested at the same lab.

If the other major sports in society can do it, why can't racing?

Baseball, basketball, football... they're very similar in that each individual team is its own business, at its core, competing against other businesses in the same market.

The Mets want to out-draw the Yankees, they want to earn more money, they want a better bottom line. Yet under the umbrella for the "Good of the Game" they hold hands with the Yankees when it comes to new steroid testing procedures and other rules/laws.

In flabbergasts me that racing cannot do the same.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If the other major sports in society can do it, why can't racing?

Baseball, basketball, football... they're very similar in that each individual team is its own business, at its core, competing against other businesses in the same market.

The Mets want to out-draw the Yankees, they want to earn more money, they want a better bottom line. Yet under the umbrella for the "Good of the Game" they hold hands with the Yankees when it comes to new steroid testing procedures and other rules/laws.

In flabbergasts me that racing cannot do the same.

Travis.. Any idea of financials involved in this? Any idea? The logistics?

How many professional baseball players are there? Football players? Etc.. How many horses? Located where? And to be tested for how many THOUSANDS of medications?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If the other major sports in society can do it, why can't racing?

Baseball, basketball, football... they're very similar in that each individual team is its own business, at its core, competing against other businesses in the same market.

The Mets want to out-draw the Yankees, they want to earn more money, they want a better bottom line. Yet under the umbrella for the "Good of the Game" they hold hands with the Yankees when it comes to new steroid testing procedures and other rules/laws.

In flabbergasts me that racing cannot do the same.

Because Travis the scope of racing dwarfs those other sports. Because horses are subject to a far greater chance of environmental contamination because of the levels that are tested at. Different labs get different results for the same medications. How is that uniform? You cant compare it to other sports simply because of the enormity of the number of athletes involved and because we are far more regulated than they are already. You work in the business, you should understand these basic things. I am not against a central regulatory body nor am I against greater regulation of medication but to do it wrong makes it worse than not doing anything.

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If the other major sports in society can do it, why can't racing?

Baseball, basketball, football... they're very similar in that each individual team is its own business, at its core, competing against other businesses in the same market.

The Mets want to out-draw the Yankees, they want to earn more money, they want a better bottom line. Yet under the umbrella for the "Good of the Game" they hold hands with the Yankees when it comes to new steroid testing procedures and other rules/laws.

In flabbergasts me that racing cannot do the same.

Racing is not the same because there is no revenue sharing. You don't perform, you don't get paid. And those that are getting paid the most are the ones who can afford the roids and keep their competitive advantage.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

I agree that there must be standards and accuracy to protect the trainers. There also needs to be severe penalties and not the the Pletcher/Assmussen 6 month vacation/suspension while your second in command runs your barn.

Honestly it would cripple 95% of the racing operations out there. Blame that on the owners. They are the ones who continue to give horses to guys with repeat violations. You cant legislate morality.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

Racing is not the same because there is no revenue sharing. You don't perform, you don't get paid. And those that are getting paid the most are the ones who can afford the roids and keep their competitive advantage.

steroids are cheap and available to all. You dont have to like them but they arent expensive.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by pgiaco

Phil, Dean Wormer was talking to Flounder when uttered the timeless "Fat drunk and stupid is no way to go through life."

Ah yes, I stand corrected... still one of the greatest lines ever to be uttered in a movie.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Travis.. Any idea of financials involved in this? Any idea? The logistics?

How many professional baseball players are there? Football players? Etc.. How many horses? Located where? And to be tested for how many THOUSANDS of medications?

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

The industry is going no where.

Today was just a bunch of old people that have nothing better to do.

[Travis Stone]

I guess what I'm saying is people are really speaking-up about these issues now. But at the end of the day, what will come of it? Who takes the reins? Clearly our sport and industry has shown a significant inability to do so, so now the government is looking at holding our hand. If the government gets involved, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

Well in that case...

[Jax Cajun]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

steroids are cheap and available to all. You dont have to like them but they arent expensive.

I did not know that, I was just going by what Gary West said yesterday about winstrol.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Certainly there are obstacles. But to me, looking into the options and considerations is more beneficial than just putting up our heels and not bothering, or blaming in on the "states rights" issues.

If it costs us $1 billion to save a multi-billion dollar industry, that's better than not spending the $1 billion and having no industry at all.

I love when you guys throw out that if we spend a billion then.....

Then what? Where is that money coming from? Trainers and owners and betters are getting hammered like the rest of the country. Do you guys who draw a salary from the business understand that one of the reasons that the sport is so screwed up from a financial side is because of sentiments like yours? When the takeouts were raised and handed over to state governments because there was so much money available. What are you going to do when LAD gets rid of racing because there are no horses left? Where is that billion going to come from? From the bettors? They can stand another takeout increase? from the owners? Like there arent enough owners getting out of the business now? Why do you think the Bob and Beverly Lewises of the world became sellers too? Because it costs so damn much to run a racing stable that even the really rich people needed to try to get some cash back. One of the problems in the sales business is that all the buyers have become sellers. This industry is not going to be saved by a federal racing commission that tests for steroids. It will be killed by people who will bleed it dry based upon the testimony of zealots and rumors and half truths.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Jax Cajun

I did not know that, I was just going by what Gary West said yesterday about winstrol.

Which proves my point about what you read or hear...

Winstrol is usually charged at around $12 per cc. a normal monthly dosage would be 5 to 10 cc's. You do the math.

I never rarely use it but i believe testosterone is even cheaper.