Report: Dutrow Facing Drug Positive

[ELA]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I agree with Eric on this one.. How is an owner to know a trainer is currently cheating.. If I give a horse to trainer am I there to see what the trainer is doing? And why is it that a trainer can't change there training or cheating ways? In all walks of life people are given multiple chances to correct the mistakes that they have been made accountable for..

Listen, I am not playing patron saint, naive little boy, etc. on this. People who know me know that I've had horses with Scott Lake and they call me a hypocrite, an immoral person, someone who doesn't care, and guess what -- even worse! LOL. So be it.

I've never once defended Scott Lake. He's had multiple positives. He has taken his days, paid his fines, and that's that. Do not ask for an industry where someone gets a lifetime ban because of multiple clenbuterol positives (or some other legal drug). You will not have an industry.

Remember the ol' story -- they came for the Jews and I didn't say anything. They came for the Catholics and I didn't say anything. They came for the Protestants and I didn't say anything . . . then they came for me, and there was no one left to say anything.

Eric

[Scav]

Oh this conversation just hit another level with the religion addition.

15 days. Laying down the LAW!!!!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by ELA

Listen, I am not playing patron saint, naive little boy, etc. on this. People who know me know that I've had horses with Scott Lake and they call me a hypocrite, an immoral person, someone who doesn't care, and guess what -- even worse! LOL. So be it.

I've never once defended Scott Lake. He's had multiple positives. He has taken his days, paid his fines, and that's that. Do not ask for an industry where someone gets a lifetime ban because of multiple clenbuterol positives (or some other legal drug). You will not have an industry.

Remember the ol' story -- they came for the Jews and I didn't say anything. They came for the Catholics and I didn't say anything. They came for the Protestants and I didn't say anything . . . then they came for me, and there was no one left to say anything.

Eric

Scott Lake is a tough one to defend Eric perhaps a small bit more of discretion could be utilized

[horseofcourse]

Is Scott Lake a Jew, Catholic, Protestent, or Muslim??

[ELA]

It's not about defending. It's simple -- there's a rule. The rule was broken and that's that. Period.

Eric

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Is Scott Lake a Jew, Catholic, Protestent, or Muslim??

An atheist.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

So, now the trainers of the 1st AND 2nd place finishers in the Kentucky Derby have Clen overages announced in the last week?

This is obviously all the work of PETA. Hard to believe that modest guys like Dutrow and Jones who were just so successful 10 years ago have ever taken any edge.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by freddymo

If the industry allows the trainers to practice there trade then the industry is ok that they served the proper penalty and should be allowed to earn a living again.. what is worse Florida, NY or KY allowing Dutrow to continue to train or owners giving him horses? If he couldn't train in the state the owners can't give him horses right?

Look I wouldn't let Dutrow train my horse but I really think I would let Biancone.. I maybe crazy but I think Biancone is worth the risk

Are you serious? Biancone has been banned from two countries. Plus do you know what Cobra Venum does? It deadens the nerve endings that allow a horse to experience pain. In other words, a horse won't be able to take the necessary precautions once they feel pain. He is far more of a problem than Dutrow. Far worse. And he cann't even take responsiblity. He lets the Vet take the hit.

[The Bid]

Thats the truth TID

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Would someone please give Chuck some f'n horses so he has less time to post on this site.

Steve Krebs posted at least twice as often and his win percentage was twice as high - once he stopped posting on boards relentlessly from 6AM to midnight his training career actually seemed to take a hit.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Absolutely not true. If people werent so concerned that they would not have the "edge" they would leave. The perception that these guys have an advantage is why owners ignore these kinds of issues. It isnt like there arent trainers out there that arent successful that dont have issues like dutrow and Assmussen. Regulation is a not going to do anything if the people who pay the bills (owners and bettors) either dont care about changing things. If you keep betting than you are sending the signal that you dont care about it. If owners dont change trainers with terrible records of violations, they are showing they dont care how they win. It is on them.

Let me ask you this. If they weren't with Dutrow, would they have won the Dubai Sprint, the Breeders Cup Mile(turf,) and the Kentucky Derby? I think they've had a substantial edge using this cheater. The best sprinter in the country, the best turf miler in the country, and the best three year old in the country, but they aren't getting an edge? Chuck is on a different planet(CONTRARIANO CUE) sometimes.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Are you serious? Biancone has been banned from two countries. Plus do you know what Cobra Venum does? It deadens the nerve endings that allow a horse to experience pain. In other words, a horse won't be able to take the necessary precautions once they feel pain. He is far more of a problem than Dutrow. Far worse. And he cann't even take responsiblity. He lets the Vet take the hit.

I am not defending what he did..Just suggesting that I would let him train my horse if I had stock that was worthy of his talent. I wouldn't allow him to juice my horse! I would just tell him no juice.. People make mistakes and come to tink of it I think nerve blocks are given to horses in non threaten locations all the time to prevent them from experiencing discomfort in a non strategic area.. Let's say a horse broke his tail what is the harm in deadening the nerves and running him?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I am not defending what he did..Just suggesting that I would let him train my horse if I had stock that was worthy of his talent. I wouldn't allow him to juice my horse! I would just tell him no juice.. People make mistakes and come to tink of it I think nerve blocks are given to horses in non threaten locations all the time to prevent them from experiencing discomfort in a non strategic area.. Let's say a horse broke his tail what is the harm in deadening the nerves and running him?

You think owners are always in on that decision?

[ELA]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Steve Krebs posted at least twice as often and his win percentage was twice as high - once he stopped posting on boards relentlessly from 6AM to midnight his training career actually seemed to take a hit.

I had a horse with him too -- 3 wins in a row I think. Maybe 2 and a second by a nose, I don't remember. Of course, I only sent him the horse because it was recommended to me by someone who's opinion I respect, and it was when Scott was serving a suspension. Had I known that was the secret to his success, I would have bought him a brand new computer, a Blackberry, a new cell phone, etc. LOL.

Eric

[ELA]

Originally Posted by GBBob

You think owners are always in on that decision?

Of course not. Another reason why it appears that the owner's only choice is to use a trainer who the moral majority accepts.

Where do you draw the line?

Eric

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by ELA

Of course not. Another reason why it appears that the owner's only choice is to use a trainer who the moral majority accepts.

Where do you draw the line?

Eric

I understand his logic (I think) , but I'm surprised that Freddy goes from saying that Biancone is a good horseman to that he would give him horses, if he could. These types of decisions are made in sports all the time and that's why some teams won't deal with the Pacmans, Bonds etc and others will. Guilt by association sucks, but that's the risk you run by going with Dutrow, Biancone, etc

These "owners" that jump into this game that are already high profile or are wannabe high profile, dont give a flying flip about the welfare of the animal. They want to be noticed.
They dont care what the trainer does to
the horse cause they want to be noticed.

If the game were only about making bucks, 95% of
the owners would/should stop with the game. Same with
those that are wagering.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by ELA

I've never once defended Scott Lake. He's had multiple positives. He has taken his days, paid his fines, and that's that. Do not ask for an industry where someone gets a lifetime ban because of multiple clenbuterol positives (or some other legal drug). You will not have an industry.

This is just not true. If I recall correctly from the numbers that were recently provided by the Racing Commissioners to Congress, only about 10% of all licensed trainers have had a drug positive called against them. There are plenty of men and women who can take care of the horses for those who don't know how to abide by the rules.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I understand his logic (I think) , but I'm surprised that Freddy goes from saying that Biancone is a good horseman to that he would give him horses, if he could. These types of decisions are made in sports all the time and that's why some teams won't deal with the Pacmans, Bonds etc and others will. Guilt by association sucks, but that's the risk you run by going with Dutrow, Biancone, etc

Hey listen, I don't have a dog in the Biancone fight, LOL. I know the guy, we say hello, talk a bit, etc. A friend of mine owns horses with him.

I think there is a big difference between the Biancone situation and a clenbuterol positive -- even the former with multiple clenbuterol positives.

Eric