Cubs get HARDEN

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Scav

Love Santo, keeps me in a good mood because of how hilarious, Kinda like reading Scuds Late night

Random thought, obviously i have seen the Brewers play alot of games, and it seems like they almost suffer sometimes when they have a good pitcher on the mound. Their coach needs to get them to focus better when Sheets/CC pitch, especially in the bullpen, can't believe they lost yesterday after the way sheets pitched...

Pathetic really yesterday. Moto needs to go where turnbow went and we need another 2 more arms in the pen. We will automatically get one with most likely McClung going to the pen. Sheets pitched good yesterday but threw a lot of pitches and gave up too many long balls. Not enough run support. Dave Bush thru 4 hitter today thru 8 and gave up one run only and we put up 11 runs.

[wiphan]

The wind must be blowing out today. 6 HR's from the Reds

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't know what Murton will turn into but I can tell you that the deal is essentially Harden,Guadin for Gallagher. Patterson is garbage, no idea about the catcher but he wasn't going anywhere with Soto probably around for a long time.

Beane really solved ALOT of Hendry's problems becuase he was constantly asked why Murton/Patterson weren't producing, yadda yadda and now, Hendry gets to wash his hands of the BS. I don't even know if they were looking for another starter, the bullpen has been stressed alot lately because Pinella has had a short fuse so the addition of Guadin could be even more important then Harden. Last night was a perfect example. Score is 5 to 1 bottom 9, and he pulls Marmol and brings in Wood for one hitter.

Now, if it were life or death, sure, pull him, but middle season games are not and I see no reason to bring in Wood in that situation, regardless if his arm is fine or not. Maybe I am just the ultimate pessamist because I personally think Wood is one pitch away from throwing his arm completely off. Why not leave Marmol in and let him fight his way through it. He doesn't give up many HR's and his stuff is electric, and he might get some confidence from getting through a trying situation.

Dude, Pinella has WAY over used Marmol this year. He is the future closer but they are killing him by using him so much. his recent troubles are almost surely due to being tired or banged up. The thought that Gaudin will be an effective set up man or replacement for Marmol is scary. Gaudin is exactly what he was used for today, innings eater period.

[Scav]

About to test the theory, right now it is 0-0 bottom of the 5th, radio about to be turned on

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Scav

About to test the theory, right now it is 0-0 bottom of the 5th, radio about to be turned on

Marquis pitching a great game right now, hopefully he will blow up now you turned on the radio

[Scav]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Marquis pitching a great game right now, hopefully he will blow up now you turned on the radio

LOOK AT THIS ****...1st and 2nd 1 out, this radio is about to be Office Spaced

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Scav

LOOK AT THIS ****...1st and 2nd 1 out, this radio is about to be Office Spaced

Radio lives another INNING

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Scav

Radio lives another INNING

Where are your bats? You guys are being 1 hit by Cain and that hit was originally called an error. I didn't see it, but probably a homer call.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Where are your bats? You guys are being 1 hit by Cain and that hit was originally called an error. I didn't see it, but probably a homer call.

Cain isn't 'that' bad, Giants have pitching, they have zero offense

That one guy that they have is SERIOUS. can't spell it, linecicum or something

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Scav

Cain isn't 'that' bad, Giants have pitching, they have zero offense

That one guy that they have is SERIOUS. can't spell it, linecicum or something

He is great as long as they don't burn him out on a worthless team. Giants do have good pitching but that is it. They have zero hitters.

SOTO!!!!!

[Scav]

Plus, Santo was just talking about how at Noon today it was 85 degrees and the ball was flying out, and now the wind shifted, it is coming from off the lake, and it is like 70 degrees....

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Len C. Cum

Now, (that) you will remember.

[Cannon Shell]

http://drivelinemechanics.com/2008/0...rden-part-two/

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://drivelinemechanics.com/2008/0...rden-part-two/

O.K., now I am going to again state the key point that is missing in your assessment, and in the assessment of your statboy friend who wrote the article. Your assessment is that Gallagher and the others(combined) will be better (in the future) than Harden. That may be a correct assessment, but the problem is that the A's will get rid of them before they become free agents. That's what they are doing with Harden. They still had him relatively cheap for a year and a half. That year and a half needs to be taken advantage of, but they didn't(especially for the start of 2009.). They make a trade like this by selling the fact they can keep young players until they become free agents. During that time they expect them to prosper. What your ignoring is they won't get the full "good cheap years" from guys like Gallagher. They will do with him what they did with Harden. I'm sure 4 or 5 years ago they told their fans that they were building for 2008/9. That time has come, and they have pushed that back to 2010-2012. When does it payoff with ring contenders? 2006 was a fluke. The free agents all hit huge that year. They dumped them all in 2007. They don't raise good enough hitters to contend for championships.

2) The A's hurt themselves for 2008, and 2009...........This seems to go right over the statboys heads, because they don't particularly care if the A's can contend for a ring. They don't care if that ever comes.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

O.K., now I am going to again state the key point that is missing in your assessment, and in the assessment of your statboy friend who wrote the article. Your assessment is that Gallagher and the others(combined) will be better (in the future) than Harden. That may be a correct assessment, but the problem is that the A's will get rid of them before they become free agents. That's what they are doing with Harden. They still had him relatively cheap for a year and a half. That year and a half needs to be taken advantage of, but they didn't(especially for the start of 2009.). They make a trade like this by selling the fact they can keep young players until they become free agents. During that time they expect them to prosper. What your ignoring is they won't get the full "good cheap years" from guys like Gallagher. They will do with him what they did with Harden. I'm sure 4 or 5 years ago they told their fans that they were building for 2008/9. That time has come, and they have pushed that back to 2010-2012. When does it payoff with ring contenders? 2006 was a fluke. The free agents all hit huge that year. They dumped them all in 2007. They don't raise good enough hitters to contend for championships.

2) The A's hurt themselves for 2008, and 2009...........This seems to go right over the statboys heads, because they don't particularly care if the A's can contend for a ring. They don't care if that ever comes.

I dont know why you think that they hurt themselves so badly for the next 2 years. Harden pitched in 13 games for them this year. 13. You know that they play 162 a year right? He wasnt 13-0. Gaudin was a mop up man. You know a guy who pitches when the game is already out of reach? Your irritation at the financial parts just dont make sense. Harden wasnt due that much money and there was no way they were giving him a long term contract anyway becuase of his injury history as much as the money. I think anyone who signs this guy to a long term deal is nuts.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont know why you think that they hurt themselves so badly for the next 2 years. Harden pitched in 13 games for them this year. 13. You know that they play 162 a year right? He wasnt 13-0.

He has started 14 times this year. His team lost 4 of those games. In those games, he gave up:

0 earned runs
1 earned run
2 earned runs
2 earned runs

He is not the reason his team lost those 4 games. He gave them chances to win. THEY TRADED AWAY THE STARTER WITH THE 2ND BEST E.R.A. IN THE MAJORS, AND YOU SAY IT DOESN'T HURT THEM IN THIS YEAR AND/OR NEXT YEAR? This is like the Andruw signing(we gunna have to agree to disagree.) This game is a war. You can't afford to just give away somebody who has dominating talent(even with a history of injuries.) He is not a journeyman pitcher.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

He has started 14 times this year. His team lost 4 of those games. In those games, he gave up:

0 earned runs
1 earned run
2 earned runs
2 earned runs

He is not the reason his team lost those 4 games. He gave them chances to win. THEY TRADED AWAY THE STARTER WITH THE 2ND BEST E.R.A. IN THE MAJORS, AND YOU SAY IT DOESN'T HURT THEM IN THIS YEAR AND/OR NEXT YEAR? This is like the Andruw signing(we gunna have to agree to disagree.) This game is a war. You can't afford to just give away somebody who has dominating talent(even with a history of injuries.) He is not a journeyman pitcher.

So the net gain over a replacemnet level pitcher who goes 7-7 is 3 games. You are going to risk getting nothing for 3 games? He is not CC Sabathia or Zambrano or Johan Santana. He is a very good pitcher when he is on. The problem is that is simply not very often. He is not a cornerstone guy or a guy you build around. He is a luxury item for a rich team like the Cubs that can take a chance on getting a 1/2 of a season from him. This isnt like trading Albert Pujols.

I like Gallagher. I think he is going to be a good pitcher. Not to mention the fact that he is 22 and durable. Murton may wind up like Eric Byrnes (before he shredded his hamstring).

Let's face it, Oakland needs to be proactive in order to not be like the other teams in another thread, KC and Pittsburgh. They need to liquidate guys like Harden who simply are too risky to pay a lot of money for.

Since 2000 Oakland has a record of 791-599 (close to 200 games above .500), they have been to the playoffs 5 times, they have finished 1st, 2nd ,1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, and are currently in 2nd in their division. In the same time frame the NY Yankees are 823-564. So they are 32 games behind the Yankees or divided over the 8 years 4 games a year behind them dispite a huge disparity payroll and revenues. The team that spend the most is 4 games better out of 162. And Beane doesnt know what he is doing or is ripping the fans off? The worst Oakland has finished is 3rd one time. Sounds like a team that isnt trying.

[Cannon Shell]

Oh Scuds.......

From Buster Olneys blog yesterday...
. On paper, the Cubs' rotation is deep and formidable. But as the season begins, they have to be very concerned about what Rich Harden will contribute. Pitching against the Yankees on Saturday, Harden's fastball was consistently clocked in the range of 85 to 89 mph -- touching 90 mph only a few times -- but you really didn't need the radar gun to tell you that he is not close to being the same pitcher who dominated in the first five months of last season.

When Harden was at his best last year, opposing hitters often looked as though they were swinging in the dark, overwhelmed by his fastball, confused by his changeup. But on Saturday, the Yankees' hitters were completely at ease at the plate against him, leaning into their swings, driving the ball. Mark Teixeira hit a home run in the third inning; then in the fifth, he got ahead 3-0 in the count and just sat on a fastball -- clocked on the radar at 86 mph -- and clubbed it into the second deck. Consider this: In Harden's first 13 starts in 2008, for Oakland, he allowed a total of five homers. On Saturday, he surrendered four against the Yankees, and he has allowed seven in his last 11 innings.


and




CUBS RELEASE GAUDIN (4:35 p.m. ET)
The Cubs have released right-hander Chad Gaudin

The reliever was acquired from Oakland in the trade that brought Rich Harden to Chicago in July.

The Cubs also optioned right-hander Jeff Samardzija to Triple-A Iowa on Sunday.

Gaudin went 9-5 with a 4.40 ERA in 50 outings with the Athletics and Cubs. He was 4-2 with a 6.26 ERA in 24 relief appearances for Chicago.

The 26-year-old has also pitched for Tampa Bay and Toronto. He has a 28-25 career record with a 4.45 ERA.


Guess that trade doesnt look so bad afterall does it? Harden cant even hit 90 on the radar gun and Gaudin couldnt even make the team. Think the Cubs will get any takers for Harden if they tried to trade him now?

[witchdoctor]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Oh Scuds.......

From Buster Olneys blog yesterday...
. On paper, the Cubs' rotation is deep and formidable. But as the season begins, they have to be very concerned about what Rich Harden will contribute. Pitching against the Yankees on Saturday, Harden's fastball was consistently clocked in the range of 85 to 89 mph -- touching 90 mph only a few times -- but you really didn't need the radar gun to tell you that he is not close to being the same pitcher who dominated in the first five months of last season.

When Harden was at his best last year, opposing hitters often looked as though they were swinging in the dark, overwhelmed by his fastball, confused by his changeup. But on Saturday, the Yankees' hitters were completely at ease at the plate against him, leaning into their swings, driving the ball. Mark Teixeira hit a home run in the third inning; then in the fifth, he got ahead 3-0 in the count and just sat on a fastball -- clocked on the radar at 86 mph -- and clubbed it into the second deck. Consider this: In Harden's first 13 starts in 2008, for Oakland, he allowed a total of five homers. On Saturday, he surrendered four against the Yankees, and he has allowed seven in his last 11 innings.


and




CUBS RELEASE GAUDIN (4:35 p.m. ET)
The Cubs have released right-hander Chad Gaudin

The reliever was acquired from Oakland in the trade that brought Rich Harden to Chicago in July.

The Cubs also optioned right-hander Jeff Samardzija to Triple-A Iowa on Sunday.

Gaudin went 9-5 with a 4.40 ERA in 50 outings with the Athletics and Cubs. He was 4-2 with a 6.26 ERA in 24 relief appearances for Chicago.

The 26-year-old has also pitched for Tampa Bay and Toronto. He has a 28-25 career record with a 4.45 ERA.


Guess that trade doesnt look so bad afterall does it? Harden cant even hit 90 on the radar gun and Gaudin couldnt even make the team. Think the Cubs will get any takers for Harden if they tried to trade him now?

Gauden probably could be the number 2 starter for the Astros this year.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

7, 6, 5, and 3 ......That's the amount of earned runs Harden gave up in July, August, September, and October. If your a team that hasn't won a World Series in 80 years(and had seemingly terrific offense of your own,) then I think it was more than worth the price (for Harden.) It took a hell of a performance from Kuroda to beat his effort. He battled us hard that night. Who would of pitched that game for the Cubs(if they didn't make that trade?) In Chuck's World, who would of pitched that game, and kept the Cubs within a couple runs of winning that game? Based on the Cubs offense, he was exactly what they needed( a low era pitcher making 13 starts with a good offensive team.) Whatever else happens has no bearing on the value of that trade. The value of that trade was getting 13 starts from him (an a era of about 2) when they were trying to get an elusive ring. He has already made that trade a quality trade. Maybe you can't see it, but I doubt you had the same goals that the team in question (Cubs ) had. This ain't fantasy bullshit. This was about trying to get a ring. I understood it. You never did. That's probably because you knew the Cubs were going to choke (no matter what,) but from their point of view, the trade is already paid for. Not only that, but the A's tanked after this trade. That's something you(of course) don't ever factor in, because your a fan of that pimp running that sickness called the Athletics (it's a fkn pimp's nest.) The fact you even bring this up shows you have an inability to see the trade is already a success for the Cubs. He did what they needed to get a ring. The other 2 starters? They battle in the post? The hitters battle in the post? I was at the 3rd game of the Cubs Dodgers Series. It wasn't easy. He battled us. If they'd of hit for him, he'd of had a ring (just like junk pitcher HAMELS GOT ONE.)