Pittsburg Pirates

I got this from their Fan Web page...

1993-2007 record:

75-89
53-61
58-86
73-89
79-83
69-93
78-83
69-93
62-100
72-89
75-87
72-89
67-95
67-95
68-94

How is it a site like this exists to actually display this futility?

Is this some sort of modern day record?
15 straight years with a losing record, soon to be 16.
If there are any fans on this site, what is the reason this
team still exists?
Honestly, I would think management would have to try
to accomplish this level of humiliation.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I got this from their Fan Web page...

1993-2007 record:

75-89
53-61
58-86
73-89
79-83
69-93
78-83
69-93
62-100
72-89
75-87
72-89
67-95
67-95
68-94

How is it a site like this exists to actually display this futility?

Is this some sort of modern day record?
15 straight years with a losing record, soon to be 16.
If there are any fans on this site, what is the reason this
team still exists?
Honestly, I would think management would have to try
to accomplish this level of humiliation.

I'd like to see the Royals numbers over the same period...Two great 70's franchises and early 80's

Royals...
same time period.

84-78
64-51
70-74
75-86
67-94
72-89
64-97
77-85
64-97
62-100
83-79
58-104
56-106
62-100
63-93

Congrats GBob. You have found another team that apparently
is looking for torture.
An anomoly did occur to break a serious losing string(red). But three - 100 loss seasons in a row... looks like they tried to make up for the strange bit of success.

[BillW]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I'd like to see the Royals numbers over the same period...Two great 70's franchises and early 80's

In the Pirates case, from the 1870's (well almost )

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PIT/

[ddthetide]

i was 8 yrs old when Clemente lead the Bucs over the orioles in the 71 WS. i turned into a Pirate and Clemente fan during the NLCS that year.
when they split up the team in the late 90's (and the last strike) i'd finally had my fill of baseball period. about once a month i check to see how many games out the Bucs are.
the Pirates are nothing more than a AAA team for the rest of the major league. this team should have been moved out of Pittsburgh years ago or folded all together. instead they screw the people of Pennsylvania and build a new stadium? this organization is a disgrace but (IMO) all of baseball is a disgrace anymore. there should be 4-6 teams folded.

[BillW]

The other day they lost a 2002 1st round pitcher who typically as of late, didn't pan out. To replace him on the roster they had to call up a guy from double-A with an ERA over 5.00. Truly sad.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by BillW

The other day they lost a 2002 1st round pitcher who typically as of late, didn't pan out. To replace him on the roster they had to call up a guy from double-A with an ERA over 5.00. Truly sad.

they used to have a really good farm system.

I remember Manny S., Willie Stargell, that whole crew.

They revenue share in baseball, correct? How can the other
owners stand to share with a team determined to fail?

Does anybody actually go to the games? They cant be pulling
a profit on their own.

[Cannon Shell]

They have poor management and cheap ownership but that is no reason to get rid of the team. The fault is MLB's and the other owners for not making these guys is the smaller markets try to win and for management of these teams failing to hire people who know what the hell they are doing. As shown by Minnesota, Oakland(screw you Scuds), Tampa (finally), Florida, St Louis, etc. it is possible to compete in a smaller market and not by going after expensive free agents. Because baseball's draft is dealing with players that very few of us have ever seen it is not nearly as publicized as the other sports. Yet the teams that draft well and build within are the ones that succeed. And teams like Pittsburgh and KC which have good picks every year and get compensation picks for losing free agents (good picks) they cant afford still manage to screw it up.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I remember Manny S., Willie Stargell, that whole crew.

They revenue share in baseball, correct? How can the other
owners stand to share with a team determined to fail?

Does anybody actually go to the games? They cant be pulling
a profit on their own.

Baseball is a very profitable business. TV contracts, merchandising contrcts, tickets (attendance has never been better) make for stuffed pockets for these owners.

[Cannon Shell]

I keep reading that the Mets are interested in Matt Holliday. I have 2 questions. #1 What do the Mets have left to trade for him? #2 Will Scuds head just explode if the Rockies "dump" Holliday for a bunch of prospects? Because depending on what they get in return, this could be a much bigger transaction that the Cubs or Brewers trade.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They have poor management and cheap ownership but that is no reason to get rid of the team. The fault is MLB's and the other owners for not making these guys is the smaller markets try to win and for management of these teams failing to hire people who know what the hell they are doing. As shown by Minnesota, Oakland(screw you Scuds), Tampa (finally), Florida, St Louis, etc. it is possible to compete in a smaller market and not by going after expensive free agents. Because baseball's draft is dealing with players that very few of us have ever seen it is not nearly as publicized as the other sports. Yet the teams that draft well and build within are the ones that succeed. And teams like Pittsburgh and KC which have good picks every year and get compensation picks for losing free agents (good picks) they cant afford still manage to screw it up.

You are correct Chuck.......They have not taken advantage of their high draft picks because management did not want to spend the money. They have shied away from the can't miss prospects(usually repped by agent Scott Boris) because they had too much leverage and were afraid they were not sign-able. The picks they have made that were sign-able either were busts or threw their arms out.....When they have made the proven talent for prospect trades, they have somehow never got the talent other teams have received. Management has sucked for 15-20 years, but they are only part of the blame because the ownership has refused to spend the money. When they have signed players they never take the guys with huge upside, they take the Derrick Bells, Matt Stairs etc... Mistake, too cheap, mistake.....20 yrs. of misery

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Baseball is a very profitable business. TV contracts, merchandising contrcts, tickets (attendance has never been better) make for stuffed pockets for these owners.

Your right they are making a profit because of revenue share without fielding a descent product. PNC park is fabulous, that is why people show up, along with fireworks and bobbleheads

Originally Posted by 3kings

Your right they are making a profit because of revenue share without fielding a descent product. PNC park is fabulous, that is why people show up, along with fireworks and bobbleheads

Why do the other owners put up with it? Thats what I dont get. I am sharing revenue with a team that is not helping our product (Baseball). Or maybe they are helping by losing. 16 years of losing seasons. Straight.

Seriously that is awful.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Why do the other owners put up with it? Thats what I dont get. I am sharing revenue with a team that is not helping our product (Baseball). Or maybe they are helping by losing. 16 years of losing seasons. Straight.

Seriously that is awful.

I agree. All other sports have a minimum you must spend within the salary cap system. I could be wrong, but I don't think baseball has one.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I remember Manny S., Willie Stargell, that whole crew.

They revenue share in baseball, correct? How can the other
owners stand to share with a team determined to fail?

Does anybody actually go to the games? They cant be pulling
a profit on their own.

i listen to a radio discussion last summer that KC and Pitt. both are making money through revenue sharing BUT the owners are pocketing the revenue instead of putting into the teams.
attendance is avg. 18,000 for this season.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Why do the other owners put up with it? Thats what I dont get. I am sharing revenue with a team that is not helping our product (Baseball). Or maybe they are helping by losing. 16 years of losing seasons. Straight.

Seriously that is awful.

Maybe because it makes it easier to win for their teams

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe because it makes it easier to win for their teams

The Washington Generals for the Harlem Globe trotters.
Maybe some baseball teams belong with the pro wrestling sports/entertainment section.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The Washington Generals for the Harlem Globe trotters.
Maybe some baseball teams belong with the pro wrestling sports/entertainment section.

It is not any different than any other sport really. The LA Clippers, Detroit Lions, Atlanta Hawks, Cincinnati Bengals...

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is not any different than any other sport really. The LA Clippers, Detroit Lions, Atlanta Hawks, Cincinnati Bengals...

16 straight losing seasons?