Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Kasept]

JOCKEY CLUB GOLD CUP (G1), Curlin 111
BELDAME S. (G1), Cocoa Beach 99
FLOWER BOWL INVITATIONAL (G1), Dynaforce 104
JOE HIRSCH TURF CLASSIC (G1), Grand Couturier 112
VOSBURGH S. (G1), Black Seventeen 108

GOODWOOD S. (G1), Well Armed 105
YELLOW RIBBON S. (G1), Wait a While 97
CLEMENT L. HIRSCH (G1), Red Giant 112
ANCIENT TITLE S. (G1), Cost of Freedom 110
OAK LEAF S. (G1), Stardom Bound 87
LADY'S SECRET S. (G1), Zenyatta 108

HAWTHORNE GOLD CUP H. (G2), Fairbanks 104
ROBERT F. CAREY MEMORIAL H. (G3), Wise River

KENTUCKY CUP CLASSIC (G2), Zanjero 99
KENTUCKY CUP DISTAFF (G3), Bear Now 93
KENTUCKY CUP SPRINT (G3), Fatal Bullet 108
ENTUCKY CUP JUVENILE S. (G3), West Side Bernie 85

ALL AMERICAN H. (G3), Delightful Kiss TBD

TURF AMAZON, Sheets 95
GALLANT BOB, Rollers 101

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Kasept

JOCKEY CLUB GOLD CUP (G1), Curlin 111
BELDAME S. (G1), Cocoa Beach 99
FLOWER BOWL INVITATIONAL (G1), Dynaforce 104
JOE HIRSCH TURF CLASSIC (G1), Grand Corturier 112
VOSBURGH S. (G1), Black Seventeen 108

GOODWOOD S. (G1), Well Armed 105
YELLOW RIBBON S. (G1), Wait a While 97
CLEMENT L. HIRSCH (G1), Red Giant 112
ANCIENT TITLE S. (G1), Cost of Freedom 110
OAK LEAF S. (G1), Stardom Bound 87
LADY'S SECRET S. (G1), Zenyatta 108

HAWTHORNE GOLD CUP H. (G2), Fairbanks TBD
ROBERT F. CAREY MEMORIAL H. (G3), Wise River TBD

KENTUCKY CUP CLASSIC (G2), Zanjero 99
KENTUCKY CUP DISTAFF (G3), Bear Now 93
KENTUCKY CUP SPRINT (G3), Fatal Bullet 108
ENTUCKY CUP JUVENILE S. (G3), West Side Bernie 85

ALL AMERICAN H. (G3), Delightful Kiss TBD

Wow....seems a little high.

[VOL JACK]

Would love to see Zenyatta go in the BC Classic, instead of the Distaff.
It would benefit both races.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by GPK

Wow....seems a little high.

Red Giant got the same fig - and he won his Grade 1 in a desperate battle instead of winning by double digits on a soft turf.

I'm not a big fan of figures for turf racing - but I think all figures become meaningless when the turf becomes soft as the margins between horses tend to get much larger and some horses struggle with the ground.

[sdjcom]

I use Brisnet pp, they are free on TSpires, and the power ratings are my tie -breaker when stuck between 2 runners, I find they are more accurate than Beyers, and i have sucess with them, just an opinion.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by sdjcom

I use Brisnet pp, they are free on TSpires, and the power ratings are my tie -breaker when stuck between 2 runners, I find they are more accurate than Beyers, and i have sucess with them, just an opinion.

You are largely alone in that opinion as most find the Brisnet figures useless. They are computer generated, thereby taking no mitigating race day factors or circumstances into account.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You are largely alone in that opinion as most find the Brisnet figures useless. They are computer generated, thereby taking no mitigating race day factors or circumstances into account.

Steve, I'm not disagreeing as I use both BRIS and Beyers. I'm a believer in the more information you have, the better you are off. That and race videos give a capper a much better chance I believe.

[sdjcom]

Originally Posted by Kasept

You are largely alone in that opinion as most find the Brisnet figures useless. They are computer generated, thereby taking no mitigating race day factors or circumstances into account.

I,m glad I am alone on this , works for me and you are saying Beyers, factors on one day will be the same on the next day the horse in question runs? Also the Bris, computer figures are more than just speed rating however I said I us them as a tie -breaker, not a factor alone, They work for me. A figure weather hand calculated, or computer generated is still just a figure to help you in selections. Beyers are no better than speed ratings with variances.

[alysheba4]

wait a while 97...........yeah, these are meaningfull.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by CSC

Steve, I'm not disagreeing as I use both BRIS and Beyers. I'm a believer in the more information you have, the better you are off. That and race videos give a capper a much better chance I believe.

Yeah, I agree. Brisnet figures are a great tool for figuring out where Beyer split the variant or tinkered with the numbers. Then it is up to the horseplayer to determine whether there is better value in following what Beyer did. Beyer is more often right but when he's wrong you'll get value. Mambo looked much better on the Beyer's but ran like his Brisnet figures.

[justindew]

I had Zanjero running a 122-124. 99 seems low.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by justindew

I had Zanjero running a 122-124. 99 seems low.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by sdjcom

I,m glad I am alone on this , works for me and you are saying Beyers, factors on one day will be the same on the next day the horse in question runs? Also the Bris, computer figures are more than just speed rating however I said I us them as a tie -breaker, not a factor alone, They work for me. A figure weather hand calculated, or computer generated is still just a figure to help you in selections. Beyers are no better than speed ratings with variances.

That's fine.. I look at the various BRIS reports and find some useful, but can't take their speed figures seriously if they aren't allowing for the possibility of split variants over the course of an afternoon and the other important variables that go into serious figure making.

The accuracy of the figure is important because it helps give the best possible indication of the performance pattern of the horse in question. An inaccurate figure can skew judgement by giving the wrong impression of the horse's likeliest effort next out...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by justindew

I had Zanjero running a 122-124. 99 seems low.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

wait a while 97...........yeah, these are meaningfull.

Sheba,

Not to single your post out in this discussion, but actually, that Wait a While figure would appear beyond even discussion in its' accuracy..

The evidence:

RIBBON: 24.53 -- 47.83 -- 1:12.31 -- 1:35.63 -- 1:59.16
HIRSCH: 23.52 -- 45.63 -- 1:08.86 -- 1:32.88 -- 1:57.16

1 - WAIT A WHILE: 97 (Previous 3 BSF's: 105-93-105)
2 - Vacare: 96 (Previous 3 BSF's: 97-96-94)
3 - Black Mamba: 94 (Previous 3 BSF's: 100-96-95)


1 - RED GIANT: 112 (Previous 3 BSF's: 105-93-103)
2 - Out of Control: 112 (Previous 3 BSF's: 46-105-103)
3 - Transduction Gold 10.30-1 BEYER: 101 (Previous 3 BSF's: 101-95-95)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.) The Hirsch was run exactly :02 full seconds faster than the Ribbon.. At 10f, the 15 point spread between Red Giant's 112 and Wait a While's 97 is dead on.

2.) The 97 fits Wait a While's alternating pattern.

3.) Vacare's fig is dead in line with her typical effort.

4.) Black Mamba returned to her typical figure after the slightly bigger the usual effort last.

5.) The Hirsch figures fit and if anything my be a tad high, which would bring the Ribbon and Wait a While's figs DOWN more. Frankly, the Ribbon figures actually STRENGTHEN the credence of the Hirsch figures.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Sheba,

Not to single your post out in this discussion, but actually, that Wait a While figure would appear beyond even discussion in its' accuracy..

The evidence:

RIBBON: 24.53 -- 47.83 -- 1:12.31 -- 1:35.63 -- 1:59.16
HIRSCH: 23.52 -- 45.63 -- 1:08.86 -- 1:32.88 -- 1:57.16

1 - WAIT A WHILE: 97 (Previous 3 BSF's: 105-93-105)
2 - Vacare: 96 (Previous 3 BSF's: 97-96-94)
3 - Black Mamba: 94 (Previous 3 BSF's: 100-96-95)


1 - RED GIANT: 112 (Previous 3 BSF's: 105-93-103)
2 - Out of Control: 112 (Previous 3 BSF's: 46-105-103)
3 - Transduction Gold 10.30-1 BEYER: 101 (Previous 3 BSF's: 101-95-95)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.) The Hirsch was run exactly :02 full seconds faster than the Ribbon.. At 10f, the 15 point spread between Red Giant's 112 and Wait a While's 97 is dead on.

2.) The 97 fits Wait a While's alternating pattern.

3.) Vacare's fig is dead in line with her typical effort.

4.) Black Mamba returned to her typical figure after the slightly bigger the usual effort last.

5.) The Hirsch figures fit and if anything my be a tad high, which would bring the Ribbon and Wait a While's figs DOWN more. Frankly, the Ribbon figures actually STRENGTHEN the credence of the Hirsch figures.

Am I correct in saying the Hirsch was a new world record at a mile and a quarter on turf? Was trying to confirm this on Saturday.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by philcski

Am I correct in saying the Hirsch was a new world record at a mile and a quarter on turf? Was trying to confirm this on Saturday.

Yes... The turf course was rolling a 12 on the stempmeter.

[Kasept]

Listed so far as just a new course record.. Haven't seen reference to world record..

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

Am I correct in saying the Hirsch was a new world record at a mile and a quarter on turf? Was trying to confirm this on Saturday.

That's what they said on TVG.

[CSC]

I'm confused but wasn't the turf course drenched with rain the day before causing a day's cancellation and these numbers were run on yielding and or soft turf?

HIRSCH: 23.52 -- 45.63 -- 1:08.86 -- 1:32.88 -- 1:57.16