2009 Graded Stakes

[blackthroatedwind]

This would, very possibly, be an unfortunate year for the Suburban to be downgraded. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't necessarily be reviewed, given some recent runnings, but I hope it is given at least one more chance.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

The AK Derby last year with Gayego and King Silver's Son or whomever...that was an awful field compared to previous years....could have more to do with the crop of 3-yo's last year than anything else.

My issue with Graded races is for 2-year olds. I just don't understand why there are so many Grade 1s and Grade 2s in the spring/early summer when it's basically a group of maiden winners entered. It's basically a first level allowance races masquerading as a G1 or G2 stakes race.

The pathetic quality of this years crop effected the Ark Derby this year. As for the 2yo G1's they are holdovers. There was a time when a races like the Hopeful or the Del Mar Futurity were the 4th or 5th start for a colt and he had actually proven something. The babies used to "sort themselves out" well before reaching those races. Now they go straight to races like the Hopeful. That's why they lost the G1 for the Futurity. When they go Maiden->G1 it weakens the G1 because the odds are that a big percentage of those "impressive" maiden winners won't turn out to be that much.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This would, very possibly, be an unfortunate year for the Suburban to be downgraded. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't necessarily be reviewed, given some recent runnings, but I hope it is given at least one more chance.

I'm having a tough time stomaching the Jamaica Handicap as a bigger race than the Suburban.

[blackthroatedwind]

The Jamaica is a Grade 2.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Jamaica is a Grade 2.

Not anymore apparently.

[blackthroatedwind]

That seems a little odd but I guess it is no worse these days than the Hollywood Derby and Secretariat. Better, in fact, than the former the last year or even two.

Turf races that are restricted to 3YOs may never feel like Grade 1s in this country. Maybe by making the Jamaica a Grade 1, which I assume means they have increased the purse, they will be able to attract some Euros.

[Scav]

So the three new races from the BC from Monmouth were upgraded to two Grade 1's and a Grade 2, not bad, and after next year, there will be two more grade 1's (FM Turf, FM Classic), two more Grade 2's (Juv Filly Turf, Turf Sprint), and a Grade 3 (Marathon)

[Linny]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/48193.htm

Here's the report. Jamaica a G1, Suburban a G2. Vinery Madison a G1, Ark Derby a G2.

Go figure...

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Scav

So the three new races from the BC from Monmouth were upgraded to two Grade 1's and a Grade 2, not bad, and after next year, there will be two more grade 1's (FM Turf, FM Classic), two more Grade 2's (Juv Filly Turf, Turf Sprint), and a Grade 3 (Marathon)

Huh? The F/M Turf and "Ladies Classic " are G1. The hard thing to get over is that the Dirt Mile (starring Albertus Maximus and Corinthian) is a G1.

[SniperSB23]

So they'll be exactly one G1 race for older males at 10 furlongs on the dirt next year. There are more for 3yo fillies.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Linny

Huh? The F/M Turf and "Ladies Classic " are G1. The hard thing to get over is that the Dirt Mile (starring Albertus Maximus and Corinthian) is a G1.

My bad, FM Turf is a Grade 1 already, Ladies Classic is not, not run enough yet, i thought they had to run at least two years before they get graded status??

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

So they'll be exactly one G1 race for older males at 10 furlongs on the dirt next year. There are more for 3yo fillies.

I'm not so sure the change in Grades ultimately affects that.

By the way, there are more for 3YO colts as well.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Scav

My bad, FM Turf is a Grade 1 already, Ladies Classic is not, not run enough yet, i thought they had to run at least two years before they get graded status.

WTF are you talking about? Get ahold of yourself. The Distaff/Ladies Classic has been run 25 times.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not so sure the change in Grades ultimately affects that.

By the way, there are more for 3YO colts as well.

You at least had two before with the Suburban and the JCGC. Just strange that the Classic distance for males is thought of as being 10 furlongs and for females 9 furlongs yet you have more 3yo filly races at 10 furlongs on the dirt than the supposed Classic division. This just keeps producing further and further incentive to not bring back a top 3yo.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You at least had two before with the Suburban and the JCGC. Just strange that the Classic distance for males is thought of as being 10 furlongs and for females 9 furlongs yet you have more 3yo filly races at 10 furlongs on the dirt than the supposed Classic division. This just keeps producing further and further incentive to not bring back a top 3yo.

That's only because of polytrack. And while I understand what you are saying....you are also being intentionally misleading.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's only because of polytrack. And while I understand what you are saying....you are also being intentionally misleading.

Even in 2010 when the BC Classic is back on dirt there will still only be two which is pathetic. They've determined that the BC Dirt Mile is now important enough to be a G1 while the Suburban fricken Handicap isn't. That is a TERRIBLE trend for this sport. All the talk of adding the Marathon division to try and get stamina back in the game, and of increasing purses to lure top 3yos back for a 4yo season and instead this is the crap we get.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You at least had two before with the Suburban and the JCGC. Just strange that the Classic distance for males is thought of as being 10 furlongs and for females 9 furlongs yet you have more 3yo filly races at 10 furlongs on the dirt than the supposed Classic division. This just keeps producing further and further incentive to not bring back a top 3yo.

The Pacific Classic and the BCC makes three.

The Jamaica as a G1 is kind of a joke. Other than Artie Schiller and Showing Up, and maybe Nobiz Like Shobiz and Stroll, are the rest of the last 10 winners G1 quality???

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

The Pacific Classic and the BCC makes three.

The Jamaica as a G1 is kind of a joke. Other than Artie Schiller and Showing Up, and maybe Nobiz Like Shobiz and Stroll, are the rest of the last 10 winners G1 quality???

Those are turf races.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Even in 2010 when the BC Classic is back on dirt there will still only be two which is pathetic. They've determined that the BC Dirt Mile is now important enough to be a G1 while the Suburban fricken Handicap isn't. That is a TERRIBLE trend for this sport. All the talk of adding the Marathon division to try and get stamina back in the game, and of increasing purses to lure top 3yos back for a 4yo season and instead this is the crap we get.

Frost Giant won the Suburban this year... and PG loves him. That is probably enough to downgrade it on it's own!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Those are turf races.

Ah...I get your point.