ahh..the good ole days..

[hi_im_god]

chuck-

i'm having a wtf moment. steve carlton?

the pitcher?

i'll debate stimulus, the efficacy of torture as a method to extract actionable information, or anything else.

but that reference went over my head.

[Smooth Operator]

Lefty, eh

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

chuck-

i'm having a wtf moment. steve carlton?

the pitcher?

i'll debate stimulus, the efficacy of torture as a method to extract actionable information, or anything else.

but that reference went over my head.

Despite the theories to the contrary, it has worked pretty well for thousands of years. My wife has perfected the art. And if SO broke the code before you did then i have nothing more to say to you.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lefty, eh

thanks. got it.

now i feel all dumb i had to ask.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lefty, eh

usually the only USC affiliated person I would communicate with is OJ but I was impressed that you got it.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Despite the theories to the contrary, it has worked pretty well for thousands of years. My wife has perfected the art. And if SO broke the code before you did then i have nothing more to say to you.

people will say anything you want them to under torture.

it's exposed countless heretics and witches. yea torture!

and it's apparently fairly satisfying to do to someone you're really pissed at. so i'd treat your wife a little better.

just hope she never joins the fbi. their agents walked out of abu gharib in disgust at the unsophisticated unproductive methods used.

and i have no excuse for missing the lefty reference. no torture required to get that out of me.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You Steve Carltons refuse to debate the "stimlus" but are going to talk about issues of national security? When your party has considered bringing charges against CIA agents who were actually doing something productive but perhaps a little too messy for the utopian vision of the world that you all seem to have? I'd rather be "outed" by the Republicans than prosecuted by the Democrats for doing my job.

i would prefer neither of those things. secret agent men shouldn't have to worry about what party is in power, or which way the wind is blowing politically...

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Despite the theories to the contrary, it has worked pretty well for thousands of years.

What exactly are you basing this statement on?

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by miraja2

What exactly are you basing this statement on?

thousands of years of torture.

and 24.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

thousands of years of torture.

and 24.

DAMN IT!!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by miraja2

What exactly are you basing this statement on?

well, it worked in anne boleyns case. even her own brother admitted under torture that they had been sleeping together-off with their heads.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by miraja2

What exactly are you basing this statement on?

If there were better methods available then why exactly havent we heard about them? I have heard plenty about the negatives yet I dont ever hear any alternatives? If there are more effective methods available why arent these being promoted as well?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i would prefer neither of those things. secret agent men shouldn't have to worry about what party is in power, or which way the wind is blowing politically...

Absolutely. However the irony of democrats hand wringing over the treatment of a CIA agent when many of them want to prosecute agents (for doing what their jobs required) is telling.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If there were better methods available then why exactly havent we heard about them? I have heard plenty about the negatives yet I dont ever hear any alternatives? If there are more effective methods available why arent these being promoted as well?

So THIS is the evidence you have to support your assertion that torture has "worked pretty well for thousands of years."

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If there were better methods available then why exactly havent we heard about them? I have heard plenty about the negatives yet I dont ever hear any alternatives? If there are more effective methods available why arent these being promoted as well?

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200506/budiansky


"Since the prison scandals broke, many old hands in the business have pointed out that abusing prisoners is not simply illegal and immoral; it is also remarkably ineffective."

"The torture of suspects [at Abu Ghraib] did not lead to any useful intelligence information being extracted," says James Corum, a professor at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College and the author of a forthcoming book on counterinsurgency warfare. "The abusers couldn't even use the old 'ends justify the means' argument, because in the end there was nothing to show but a tremendous propaganda defeat for the United States."

Corum, who recently retired as a lieutenant colonel after twenty-eight years in the Army and Reserves, mostly in military intelligence, says that Moran's philosophy has repeatedly been affirmed in subsequent wars large and small. "Know their language, know their culture, and treat the captured enemy as a human being" is how Corum sums up Moran's enduring lesson."

[Antitrust32]

honestly, I could care less whether we torture terrorists or not. I think we should get as much info out of terrorists as we can...

They are people who all they care about is killing us.

Do you think if they captured our soldiers or workers over there (which they do) they think "Oh, well it may be unethical to torture this guy... so we'll just not do it" HELL NO... they behead you on camera and then post it online and on TV.

I was very upset at CNN and the other news outlets for all the publicity they give to Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. All they are doing is feeding the Middle Eastern Terrorists more fuel for the fire. There were a lot of contractors kidnapped and beheaded over there when the Abu Ghraib situation was in the news all the time. I think it was shameful for the news outlets to make US out to be the bad guys. Anti-America propaganda used to make the world hate us a little more.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

honestly, I could care less whether we torture terrorists or not. I think we should get as much info out of terrorists as we can...

They are people who all they care about is killing us.

Do you think if they captured our soldiers or workers over there (which they do) they think "Oh, well it may be unethical to torture this guy... so we'll just not do it" HELL NO... they behead you on camera and then post it online and on TV.

I was very upset at CNN and the other news outlets for all the publicity they give to Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. All they are doing is feeding the Middle Eastern Terrorists more fuel for the fire. There were a lot of contractors kidnapped and beheaded over there when the Abu Ghraib situation was in the news all the time. I think it was shameful for the news outlets to make US out to be the bad guys. Anti-America propaganda used to make the world hate us a little more.

i agree.

which is why we should use effective methods.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

honestly, I could care less whether we torture terrorists or not. I think we should get as much info out of terrorists as we can...

They are people who all they care about is killing us.

Do you think if they captured our soldiers or workers over there (which they do) they think "Oh, well it may be unethical to torture this guy... so we'll just not do it" HELL NO... they behead you on camera and then post it online and on TV.

I was very upset at CNN and the other news outlets for all the publicity they give to Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. All they are doing is feeding the Middle Eastern Terrorists more fuel for the fire. There were a lot of contractors kidnapped and beheaded over there when the Abu Ghraib situation was in the news all the time. I think it was shameful for the news outlets to make US out to be the bad guys. Anti-America propaganda used to make the world hate us a little more.

i think so too...
by the same token, we can't torture prisoners and then take offense when they treat our men and women in a similar manner. that is not to say that we should put enemy combatants up in a hilton garden inn either.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think so too...
by the same token, we can't torture prisoners and then take offense when they treat our men and women in a similar manner. that is not to say that we should put enemy combatants up in a hilton garden inn either.

treat in a similar manner? LMAO we cutting heads off? or hanging them off bridges and setting them on fire? Didn't think so.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

treat in a similar manner? LMAO we cutting heads off? or hanging them off bridges and setting them on fire? Didn't think so.

i just read yesterday about a case against one of our own soldiers for blindfolding and then shooting four iraqis in the head. so, no, not a beheading-but certainly in a similar vein. glad you find it all so amusing.