Gotham Stakes

NTamm1215 · #1 02-23-2009, 01:02 PM

The field for the Gotham is coming together quite nicely. In addition to the NY-breds Mr. Fantasy and Haynesfield, Steve Haskin reported that Danger to Society, Imperial Council, Naos, Masala, and I Want Revenge are scheduled to go.

It's nice to see that the Gotham will be a stronger race this year than it has been in years past.

NT

the_fat_man · #2 02-23-2009, 01:07 PM

Yeah

Now if we could only get that track straightened out again.

freddymo · #3 02-23-2009, 03:01 PM

The Gotham and then Wood are a terrific test for a 3 year old

robfla · #4 02-23-2009, 03:08 PM

I would guess that Gulfstream's decision to cut the FOY to a one-turn mile has something to do with the better field

Kasept · #5 02-23-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla

I would guess that Gulfstream's decision to cut the FOY to a one-turn mile has something to do with the better field

Why is that? The Fountain of Youth is going to be stacked to the gills.

justindew · #6 02-23-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Why is that? The Fountain of Youth is going to be stacked to the gills.

Well, Imperial Council for one is likely leaving town in search of a two-turn race.

justindew · #7 02-23-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

Well, Imperial Council for one is likely leaving town in search of a two-turn race.

....and probably the extra time too, now that I think about it.

robfla · #8 02-23-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Why is that? The Fountain of Youth is going to be stacked to the gills.

sure the FOY is stacked, but aren't some trainers going to be looking for TWO TURN races to prep with? at least 3 of the 5 horses the OP listed were based at GP

freddymo · #9 02-23-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

Well, Imperial Council for one is likely leaving town in search of a two-turn race.

Hasn't Shug always used the Gotham and then Wood.. All of his stock moves once the weather breaks some heading to Keeneland but the colts seem to always go to Belmont right?

freddymo · #10 02-23-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Why is that? The Fountain of Youth is going to be stacked to the gills.

Steve it seems to be a horrible year for colts... Stacked implies quality not quanity

Kasept · #11 02-23-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla

sure the FOY is stacked, but aren't some trainers going to be looking for TWO TURN races to prep with? at least 3 of the 5 horses the OP listed were based at GP

They seem to care less and less. A 8f one turn March 1 to a 9f start in early April to 10f in early May... The late-developing Curlin/Big Brown style 'career' arc may be the 'new' Derby approach.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Steve it seems to be a horrible year for colts... Stacked implies quality not quanity

You're 100% right Freddy..

NTamm1215 · #12 02-23-2009, 03:38 PM

The Fountain of Youth may feature a list of sprinters masquerading as Derby horses, but it is still a deep field with a number of accomplished horses.

I actually think the prospective field for the Gotham speaks more to the depth in NY that hasn't existed in years past. Who was the leading NY based runner right now in 2008? Giant Moon? OK. Haynesfield and Mr. Fantasy might not be much but they were certainly better than Giant Moon (whose biggest accomplishment was really dominating Spanky Fischbein).

The Fla shippers that are headed up hail from a NY barn (Imperial Council) or from a trainer that has a number of contenders (Danger to Society) or from a California based trainer in search of conventional dirt.

There might not be a standout this year and since it's become so cool/easy to bash the 3YOs its the same old tune in '09 but this bunch is significantly more interesting than last year's class, for what that's worth.

NT

miraja2 · #13 02-23-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

It's nice to see that the Gotham will be a stronger race this year than it has been in years past.

True....but I'm not sure that is much of an accomplishment. The likes of Galloping Grocer and Cowtown Cat are bested rather easily.

NTamm1215 · #14 02-23-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

True....but I'm not sure that is much of an accomplishment. The likes of Galloping Grocer and Cowtown Cat are bested rather easily.

Don't forget about Like Now or last year's narrow miss loser Texas Wildcatter. Hell, Visionaire wasn't much horse either.

When it became clear that the inner track meet was going to be extended thru March there were really few possibilities for the Gotham, so hopefully this year will be a harbinger of things to come.

NT

Linny · #15 02-23-2009, 04:21 PM

The Gotham is a better race now that it's a 2 turn 1 1/16. It's a better lead-in to the Wood. Visionaire wasn't a bad horse but he was part of a poor crop. He did win the King's Bishop and was probably better at 7f or a mile. Wasn't last year's Gotham run in the fog over a sea of slo?

ateamstupid · #16 02-23-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

You're 100% right Freddy..

Really? I think this year's Fountain of Youth is the best Derby prep being run in years, and the Gotham looks very strong as well. I'm not sure what the hell has to happen for people to stop that yearly "this crop sucks!" call. Last year's colt crop was terrible, but people were saying the crop was terrible around this time in '07 too. I think this has the makings of a very good crop of three-year-olds. What's the knock? I don't get it. We have brilliance (Notonthesamepage, This Ones For Phil, Quality Road, Mr. Fantasy, Dunkirk), consistency (Haynesfield, Old Fashioned, Friesan Fire) and a bunch of horses that could be anything (pretty much everyone in the FOY, Santana Six, Imperial Council, etc.), not to mention the Dubai horses if they ever get over here.

Danzig · #17 02-23-2009, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Really? I think this year's Fountain of Youth is the best Derby prep being run in years, and the Gotham looks very strong as well. Then we've got Old Fashioned, Friesan Fire and a few decent west coast horses as well. I'm not sure what the hell has to happen for people to stop that yearly "this crop sucks!" call. Last year's colt crop was terrible, but people were saying the crop was terrible around this time in '07 too. I think has the makings of a very good crop of three-year-olds. What's the knock? I don't get it.

no more racing.
it's still february. way too soon to say for sure what kind of crop we're looking at. last years didn't turn out well, but at this point last year, everyone was talking up pyro-but for a while there, he did look good! we didn't think it was that bad of a group, but as things turned out, it really wasn't that good.

as for the FOY and whether it's good, bad or otherwise-each race will not be a harbinger of things to come in may. when's the last time any fairgrounds horse really turned out a force in ky? doesn't mean those races aren't good races on their own merits, or that people won't run a horse who will do well at these shorter distances. not every horse is a two turn horse, so of course some will point to the foy-regardless of plans from there.

blackthroatedwind · #18 02-23-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Really? I think this year's Fountain of Youth is the best Derby prep being run in years, and the Gotham looks very strong as well. I'm not sure what the hell has to happen for people to stop that yearly "this crop sucks!" call. Last year's colt crop was terrible, but people were saying the crop was terrible around this time in '07 too. I think this has the makings of a very good crop of three-year-olds. What's the knock? I don't get it. We have brilliance (Notonthesamepage, This Ones For Phil, True Quality, Mr. Fantasy, Dunkirk), consistency (Haynesfield, Old Fashioned, Friesan Fire) and a bunch of horses that could be anything (pretty much everyone in the FOY, Santana Six, Imperial Council, etc.), not to mention the Dubai horses if they ever get over here.

True Quality is a 4YO. Mr. Fantasy and Dunkirk are brilliant?

I do agree, though, that right now there are way more promising 3YOs than last year. It isn't even close. Even if some of these turn out to be distance challenged there is definitely some prospective talent out there.

None of them, however, are named Pioneer of the Nile.

SniperSB23 · #19 02-23-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Really? I think this year's Fountain of Youth is the best Derby prep being run in years, and the Gotham looks very strong as well. I'm not sure what the hell has to happen for people to stop that yearly "this crop sucks!" call. Last year's colt crop was terrible, but people were saying the crop was terrible around this time in '07 too. I think this has the makings of a very good crop of three-year-olds. What's the knock? I don't get it. We have brilliance (Notonthesamepage, This Ones For Phil, True Quality, Mr. Fantasy, Dunkirk), consistency (Haynesfield, Old Fashioned, Friesan Fire) and a bunch of horses that could be anything (pretty much everyone in the FOY, Santana Six, Imperial Council, etc.), not to mention the Dubai horses if they ever get over here.

I think it is the synthetics in California causing it. On the east coast there still seems to be a normal level of promising horses. But usually they are supplemented by a group of promising horses in the California. Now that it is all synthetics out there it is tough to get excited about any of them. So that really reduces the number of horses you can take seriously.

Danzig · #20 02-23-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think it is the synthetics in California causing it. On the east coast there still seems to be a normal level of promising horses. But usually they are supplemented by a group of promising horses in the California. Now that it is all synthetics out there it is tough to get excited about any of them. So that really reduces the number of horses you can take seriously.

well, i think you can find cali racing exciting. the questions come in when those horses leave the west coast. some who ran poorly there will step up on dirt, and those who looked sooooo good out there, won't look good on the real stuff. i certainly found watching zenyatta run to be exciting. as for using one of them on derby day-good luck's all i can say.