Sun KIng

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I love the line about Randy Moss saying there was no speed bias, as though he was the god of biases. There may have been no speed bias but If you look at the results of the 1 1/8th races today you wont see many closers faring well.

I guess we have to wait to see what kind of Rag sheet number Flower Alley gets before we can declare this as truly a bad race. Sorry Todd, couldn't resist.

The person that buys horses for Greg Norman does a remarkable job considering the results he gets despite his obvious lack of training or management skills.

Sun King is the definition of grinder.

Don't understand why people still get upset when Funny Cide runs up the track. He is a nice grade 3 horse that happens to be a gelding. As long as he is sound who cares how much he loses? Lots of not so great horses win triple crown races. Just most are retired before they can truly be exposed like FC.

If randy moss actually said that there was no speed bias, they need to have him covering tiddly winks and womens volleyball.
Did he actually say that?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by oracle80

If randy moss actually said that there was no speed bias, they need to have him covering tiddly winks and womens volleyball.
Did he actually say that?

he did indeed.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

he did indeed.

What a ****ing imbecile he is then. He goes on the imbecile list.

[Danzig]

lol

now, now...you know moss is no imbecile. everyone says something dumb once in a while. let him use his 'dumb' card for a free pass.

maybe there wasn't earlier on...i have no idea. i DO know after he said it, i sat and pondered...and figured, naaaah. he must have mis-spoken. that and bailey blasting premium tap, instead of congratulating him....he probably bet the chalk! yum yum jerry, eat it up!! lol

Originally Posted by oracle80

If randy moss actually said that there was no speed bias, they need to have him covering tiddly winks and womens volleyball.
Did he actually say that?

Sorry. Randy Moss is the one guy who does know what he is talking about on TV. Who else you got in mind to put in his spot? The guy knows his history, he knows the horses, he is well-spoken. All the track guys they have analyzing races at all the different tracks... no way in hell they could take his spot.
I think the Moss, Mayne, Bailey combination is working very, very well. I really like Bailey and his arrogant edge. And with Mayne to lighten things up. A very good bunch. ESPN must be given kudos with this group. It works in a sport that does not.

[Slewstoo]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pais, please note this response to a friend!!!
Seattle, You are about as stupid when it comes to analyzing races as anyone alive.
Sun King was beaten a nose and a head in the two most prestigious races for older horses on the east Coast.
yesterday, while running in a paceless race and against a speed bias, he showed heart and determination while attempting to run down the leaders despite the fact that noone else in the race could even make a dent on them in the lane.
The horse has earned about 2 million bucks. Although he lacks speed and at times consistency, hes always been a threat when racing at the very highest level.
I suggest you stick to computers, because you don't know a damn thing about horses.

That about sums it up. Sun King tries his heart out every time and is having one hell of a year, if he would have had a little better racing luck he would have been a dual G1 winner in two of the most important races of the year and would be a live contender for horse of the year. If Zito is smart, he'll give him some time off and get him ready for the Classic with an easy prep.

It also appeared to me that Julien used him a little early before the final turn, Rafael may have been the difference in this race. But, considering how the track was on Saturday he still ran a great race and should be commended for how game he is no matter who he's facing. Love the guts and heart of this horse.

[Pedigree Ann]

Look at the charts from Saturday -- on the main track, no winner was worse than second at the quarter pole. The stretch was a no-passing zone so I think Sun King ran a commendable race.

[King Glorious]

Amazing stuff. Sun King tried hard and ran a great race? If he's a really good horse, what does this make Premium Tap? U know Premium Tap has beaten him twice now. And what does this make Second of June? U know, the same Second of June that hasn't won a race since 2003? Give it up. Sun King is not a top class horse and all this race does is confirms that Invasor is extremely overrated.

[Cannon Shell]

KG,
Who is good? Lava Man ? Everyone else sucks???

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

KG,
Who is good? Lava Man ? Everyone else sucks???

Lava Man is good. Bernardini is good. I think Discreet Cat is in that class also (although admittedly, he's got to do more to prove it to everyone). Other than that, I don't think there are any other horses that route that are any good, 3yo's or older. Wait, I forgot about Bright One and Cindago. But the jury is still out on both of those two but they have potential to be good ones.

The rest? Yes, they all suck. U can put a blanket over them and they are all the same horse. The ones that win today will come in last in the next race and the ones that were nowhere to be found today will win the next race. The only consistency in the division is the inconsistency. Invasor has seemed like he is a step ahead of them but he's beaten absolutely nothing at all and was all out to barely beat Sun King, who is simply NOT a grade one winning horse. He had the perfect opportunity here and couldn't get it done again and hold's a losing record versus Premium Tap. Let's be real here. Premium Tap is not a world beater. He had 13 career starts before yesterday and no graded stakes wins and only $171k in earnings. Then Second of June also beat him, he of no wins since January of 2004. And he barely beats Papi Chullo, he of no career stakes wins and who was last seen losing the Longacres Mile. Meanwhile, not one but all of the supposed top stakes horses in the race (Flower Alley, Sun King, Suave, Andromeda's Hero, and Funny Cide) all flopped.

[Thunder Gulch]

I hope Sun King keeps chugging along and filling out huge all/ all/ sunny triples

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I strongly disagree with your analysis of Sun King. He had no shot in the Woodward on that track. It was very biased towards speed Saturday, and Sunday for that matter. He closed to finish within a length or so, and he was the only one who made a winning move in that race. He was also a nose back in quite possibly the two most prestegious races for older horses in NY, in the Met Mile and Whitney. Both are grade ones. And who beat him in those two races? Silver Train, who is about unbeatable at Belmont, and Invasor, a horse who has lost one race in his life, to Discreet cat, who you think is good. Sun King is definitely a grade I caliber horse, and he has proven it by keeping that company for the past two years.

First thing is that how can it be possible that Sun King was the ONLY one that made a WINNING MOVE in a race in which he finished third? Did the first two finishers make losing moves? I don't understand that. There is a difference, at least to me, in being grade one caliber and a grade one horse. Going Wild was keeping grade one company last year. Did that make him grade one caliber? If EVERYTIME u step up to that level, u lose, that's saying something. EVERYTIME.

[Danzig]

this reminds me of when smarty lost the belmont..
'SEE' they said, 'told you he couldn't get 12f!!! he lost by a length. came in second after winning every other race he ran in.....yep, they were right. 1 length is the difference between being able to get 12f or not, so i guess a nose is the difference between being/not being a gr 1 horse.
premium tap won, a lot on here said he isn't a true gr 1 horse--and he won the thing! so i guess sun king will just have to suck it up.


i also remember a certain 'bridesmaid' a couple years back...ended up winning a bunch when he finally figured it out. stands for a nice stud fee now too.

aldebaran anyone?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

this reminds me of when smarty lost the belmont..
'SEE' they said, 'told you he couldn't get 12f!!! he lost by a length. came in second after winning every other race he ran in.....yep, they were right. 1 length is the difference between being able to get 12f or not, so i guess a nose is the difference between being/not being a gr 1 horse.
premium tap won, a lot on here said he isn't a true gr 1 horse--and he won the thing! so i guess sun king will just have to suck it up.


i also remember a certain 'bridesmaid' a couple years back...ended up winning a bunch when he finally figured it out. stands for a nice stud fee now too.

aldebaran anyone?

Its funny you mention Aldebaran, he is not talked about very much. This horse killed me. I was all over him one year with Bailey aboard at low odds and he could just never get up. I swore off of him. Gave up. Next year he comes up with mutliple gr1 wins!! And i don't make a penny!

oh well, still liked him.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Its funny you mention Aldebaran, he is not talked about very much. This horse killed me. I was all over him one year with Bailey aboard at low odds and he could just never get up. I swore off of him. Gave up. Next year he comes up with mutliple gr1 wins!! And i don't make a penny!

oh well, still liked him.

see, never give up on a horse til the horse gives up!

[Danzig]

dahoss, if i'm breathing, i'm usually being sarcastic! i almost lost my mind after that race, one of smartys best, when people suggested it was now proven he couldn't get 12f!!!! one lousy length. unbelievable.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I can't really tell if you are being sarcastic here or not. I think Smarty did get 12 furlongs by running second. Why is the winner the only one who handled it? This is a funny argument to me because in a lot of people's eyes on here it's win or nothing. So I suppose Perfect Drift wouldn't be a grade I horse, despite keeping grade I type company for how many years. It's ridiculous.

no that is the point, you can't use a length or two loss to make a blanket statement about a horses class. Of course Smarty could get 12 furlongs.

[Danzig]

right, or a nose or 3rd on a biased track.....sun king is a gr 1 performer, smarty could get 12f, albeit not QUITE as well as turd..i mean, birdstone.

sun king, if kept in training (and i see no reason to think otherwise) will get a gr 1 win. eventually....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I know, it's one of my pet peeves. I had someone tell me the other day they thought Sun king would bounce in the Woodward. I disagreed, then after the race he comes running up and says, see I told you he would bounce. I was dumbfounded......

i thought he would take a step back after his last, but that was a pretty good step 'back'....he ran a good one.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I know, it's one of my pet peeves. I had someone tell me the other day they thought Sun king would bounce in the Woodward. I disagreed, then after the race he comes running up and says, see I told you he would bounce. I was dumbfounded......

Bounce?! yeah some bounce. Typical of some of the ridiculous stuff people come up with. He raced very solidly yesterday and is at or near peak form.
He'll get a gr1 win one of these days.