Turn em loose!

Cannon Shell · #1 03-11-2009, 04:34 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/10/...ef=werecommend

Antitrust32 · #2 03-11-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/10/...ef=werecommend

It was just SO important that the first thing Obama could do as president was to give these guys some Rights. And you hear over and over about terrorists that have been released from there are right back in action. Just a story today about some exGitmo is now a powerful Taliban guy.

But Obama giving these guys rights and respect just makes us such a better and safer country, right Ateam?

ateamstupid · #3 03-11-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

It was just SO important that the first thing Obama could do as president was to give these guys some Rights.

But Obama giving these guys rights and respect just makes us such a better and safer country, right Ateam?

If I felt that anything more than 10% of the people we illegally detain were terrorists, I wouldn't care so much. Just because there are unrepentant terrorists means it's justified to be shackling and torturing innocent people and turning more people against us? Keeping secret prisons doesn't make us any safer, it destroys our moral standing and reinforces the idea that we're the bad guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

And you hear over and over about terrorists that have been released from there are right back in action. Just a story today about some exGitmo is now a powerful Taliban guy.

The hell are you talking about? I must have missed this.

Antitrust32 · #4 03-11-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

If I felt that anything more than 10% of the people we illegally detain were terrorists, I wouldn't care so much. Just because there are unrepentant terrorists means it's justified to be shackling and torturing innocent people and turning more people against us? Keeping secret prisons doesn't make us any safer, it destroys our moral standing and reinforces the idea that we're the bad guys.

The hell are you talking about? I must have missed this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090310/...tainee_taliban

SniperSB23 · #5 03-11-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090310/...tainee_taliban

If I were released from a country that had tortured me I think I'd become a terrorist afterwards against them even if I wasn't one to begin with. That was bad judgement by Bush and nothing to do with Obama's plans for Guantanamo. All Obama's plans mean are that we can no longer detain someone for absolutely no reason and we can no longer torture prisoners.

Cannon Shell · #6 03-11-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

If I felt that anything more than 10% of the people we illegally detain were terrorists, I wouldn't care so much. Just because there are unrepentant terrorists means it's justified to be shackling and torturing innocent people and turning more people against us? Keeping secret prisons doesn't make us any safer, it destroys our moral standing and reinforces the idea that we're the bad guys.

The hell are you talking about? I must have missed this.

Who said it was illegal? Who says that 10% were or werent terrorists. These arent "innocent people" just dragged off the streets. There is a reason that they are there. Acting as if we are the bad guys is wrong. Guantanamo was and is not a secret prison. Our moral standing? Whose morals are you using as a baseline? As you can see, the moral standing that the prisoners in that prison follow is a not exactly a high standard.

I hate to inform you of this but our morals, standards and rule of law are way higher than the vast majority of the world and laughingly high as compared to our enemies. The problem that you and the ACLU crowd seem to forget is that these people are not Americans nor were taken from American soil and as such arent and shouldnt be covered by domestic laws.

The thought that there are a bunch of railroaded innocents there is crazy.

Cannon Shell · #7 03-11-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If I were released from a country that had tortured me I think I'd become a terrorist afterwards against them even if I wasn't one to begin with. That was bad judgement by Bush and nothing to do with Obama's plans for Guantanamo. All Obama's plans mean are that we can no longer detain someone for absolutely no reason and we can no longer torture prisoners.

Thats ridiculous. So if you are wrongly arrested and thrown into prison it is ok to turn to crime after being released? Nice logic.

How do you or anyone else know why these people were put in there? I mean did you hack into the CIA database? Or are you a Amnesty International junkie.

These are bad people and this is a dirty war. **** happens.

SniperSB23 · #8 03-11-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Thats ridiculous. So if you are wrongly arrested and thrown into prison it is ok to turn to crime after being released? Nice logic.

How do you or anyone else know why these people were put in there? I mean did you hack into the CIA database? Or are you a Amnesty International junkie.

These are bad people and this is a dirty war. **** happens.

If you were thrown into an Iraqi or Afghan prison for no reason, were tortured, and then eventually released how would you feel about that country?

Fabricating charges against them is a hell of a lot better than violating the Geneva Convention if you want to go the "these are bad people and this is a dirty war" route. I'm sure these aren't good people but there are better ways of handling them than detaining them when you can't even drum up charges against them.

Antitrust32 · #9 03-11-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If you were thrown into an Iraqi or Afghan prison for no reason, were tortured, and then eventually released how would you feel about that country?

Fabricating charges against them is a hell of a lot better than violating the Geneva Convention if you want to go the "these are bad people and this is a dirty war" route. I'm sure these aren't good people but there are better ways of handling them than detaining them when you can't even drum up charges against them.

why the hell do you believe they are thrown in for no reason?? That is moronic (no offense). They arent just throwing any Tom, Dick or Harry into jail for no reason (or any Muhommad, Osama, or Saddam).

Cannon Shell · #10 03-11-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If you were thrown into an Iraqi or Afghan prison for no reason, were tortured, and then eventually released how would you feel about that country?

Fabricating charges against them is a hell of a lot better than violating the Geneva Convention if you want to go the "these are bad people and this is a dirty war" route. I'm sure these aren't good people but there are better ways of handling them than detaining them when you can't even drum up charges against them.

If I was fighting against them i would probably expect it if captured. Think our prisoners get three hots and a cot? They get their heads cut off.

You know what they used to do with these types? Shoot them.

I love how you know that we "fabricated charges" against them. Wouldnt it have been easier to just "torture" them over there and dump the bodies when done? The problem was we tried to find a way to do it properly. The Geneva convention doesnt exactly apply and you know it. Hell most of the countries that these people are from dont want them back! This is a very tricky situation in that this kind of war has very little or no precedent. Obama didnt exactly kick open the door and clear out the Bay. They are all still there.

There is not going to be a clean solution to this issue. But acting as though we are wronging a bunch of innocents is crazy.

ateamstupid · #11 03-11-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is not going to be a clean solution to this issue. But acting as though we are wronging a bunch of innocents is crazy.

I see, so I'm unqualified to say that we're torturing a bunch of innocent people, but it's within your expertise to say that they're all guilty. I get it now.

ateamstupid · #12 03-11-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

why the hell do you believe they are thrown in for no reason?? That is moronic (no offense). They arent just throwing any Tom, Dick or Harry into jail for no reason (or any Muhommad, Osama, or Saddam).

Why the hell do you believe that they are all thrown in because they're terrorists? That is moronic (no offense). Yeah, because if there's anything the Bush administration was famous for, it was meticulous war strategy.

Cannon Shell · #13 03-11-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I see, so I'm unqualified to say that we're torturing a bunch of innocent people, but it's within your expertise to say that they're all guilty. I get it now.

I dont know if they are guilty or not but the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence available to us seems to point to guilty. You made the yourself the expert by stating that 90% were innocent. get it now?

ateamstupid · #14 03-11-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont know if they are guilty or not but the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence available to us seems to point to guilty. You made the yourself the expert by stating that 90% were innocent. get it now?

You're right, I should leave it to the experts touting invisible 'circumstantial evidence' to justify torturing people. Nailed it!

Cannon Shell · #15 03-11-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Why the hell do you believe that they are all thrown in because they're terrorists? That is moronic (no offense). Yeah, because if there's anything the Bush administration was famous for, it was meticulous war strategy.

yeah the soldiers who captured them all were directly linked to Bush in the oval office. And remind me again about who seemed to come out ahead in that war? Did we lose?

Tell me why exactly were the people thrown in Guantanamo put there? Bush people were looking to run up theri frequent flyer miles so they just grabbed every funny looking Abdul off the street? You do know that everyone in prison is innocent dont you? Just ask them.

ateamstupid · #16 03-11-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah the soldiers who captured them all were directly linked to Bush in the oval office. And remind me again about who seemed to come out ahead in that war? Did we lose?

Is this a trick question?

Rudeboyelvis · #17 03-11-2009, 07:36 PM

It's a complete and absolute fuci<ing mess. People were rounded up based on "informants" turning others in - no due dilligence, nothing. If you got scooped up, all you had to do was turn in one of your neighbors that had pissed you off... What the purpose of the hysteria was is anybody's guess - all you have to do is watch what happened at Bagram and Abu Ghraib ..... The bonus is the other 90% that weren't terrorists are now. Catch "Taxi to the Darkside" on HBO - you will sh!t your pants...

Cannon Shell · #18 03-11-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You're right, I should leave it to the experts touting invisible 'circumstantial evidence' to justify torturing people. Nailed it!

Please tell me where you are getting all your insight on the goings on there? or is it classified? I tend to side with the US military over the ACLU or Amnesty international. call me crazy.

dellinger63 · #19 03-11-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If I were released from a country that had tortured me I think I'd become a terrorist afterwards against them even if I wasn't one to begin with. That was bad judgement by Bush and nothing to do with Obama's plans for Guantanamo. All Obama's plans mean are that we can no longer detain someone for absolutely no reason and we can no longer torture prisoners.

This is just like Chicago. Get charged as an innocent person do 'bad' time and when you get out you're head of the Gangster Deciples, Vice Lords, Latin Kings or Chicago mob depending on where you grew up. Give me a break this guy didn't need water he needed a late term abortion. We had the bad guy and let him go.

Cannon Shell · #20 03-11-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

It's a complete and absolute fuci<ing mess. People were rounded up based on "informants" turning others in - no due dilligence, nothing. If you got scooped up, all you had to do was turn in one of your neighbors that had pissed you off... What the purpose of the hysteria was is anybody's guess - all you have to do is watch what happened at Bagram and Abu Ghraib ..... The bonus is the other 90% that weren't terrorists are now. Catch "Taxi to the Darkside" on HBO - you will sh!t your pants...

Yeah HBO that awesome source of truthful and unbiased information.