Scat Daddy or Circular Quay?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Arl Jim,
Horses are gauged on their race track performances. They aren't gauged on their morning drills or trainer opinions. WIth CQ's win being so decisive even if Todd feels that the other one is better, hes smart enough to know that the on track battle declared the leader.

good point, he may have early on thought Scat Daddy was better, but i have to believe he is really loving how CQ runs in the afternoons!

[quote=Cunningham Racing]If you only knew why I posted here ...It isn't because "I" want to learn anything, I can assure you of that..

QUOTE]


and modest too.....

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Exactly. See that's what is funny about this whole ordeal. The FACT is CQ soundly defeated Scat Daddy, and the rest of the Hopeful field. Every can have opinions, or write essays after the race explaining why a horse they touted for two months was defeated. But when you throw those crazy things called facts in, well how can you still argue the point?

I agree and was stunned when I came in last night and read this thread. I mean if a horse wins due to a perfect trip while another has an extremely bad one I can understand someone saying my horse was better. I do it myself.
But this race, while not a "bernadini" win, was very very sound in showing who is the goods.
Granted deciding that he didn't wanna run early helped him rally into the duel, but lost in this was Gomez overreacting and yanking the right rein so hard as the approached the stretch that the horse went sideways and lost momentum and to reaccelerate. What happened was that Gomez had never ridden him before and appeared to be taken by surprise when the horse decided it was time to go. Gomez had been saving ground while trailing(the smart move) and although he hadn't asked the horse to run yet, the horse decided that he wanted to go and began to close into the pack incredibly quick. He went from 15 back to 6 back in a matter of yards and gomez was so taken by surprise that I think he actually feared running into the back of the horses he was gaining on. He yanked very hard on the right rein and you can see the horse's head go completely sideways and he lost momentum. He had to get rolling again and still blew them away easily.
I really can't see how any rational person could have seen that race and decide that anyone was tons the best other than the winner.
What someone told you about who was better months ago is of no relevance when you see an effort like that.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I liked the way Gomez schooled the other jocks in the race.

Hey Oracle, Now that the meet is over and people have had a better chance to watch Gomez, what is everyone saying about him now? I bet people think he's pretty good.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I liked the way Gomez schooled the other jocks in the race.

Hey Oracle, What is everyone saying about Gomez now in NY? I bet people think he's pretty good.

Rup he didn't school anyone in that race. And had lost due to that head turning incident approaching the stretch, he woulda been crucified.
People still think the same thing Rup, talented and dumb. Does so many dumb things and so many great things that he is exasperating. He's also been doing something strange in the lane lately, horses are bearing in on him like crazy and its cost him a couple of wins and almost cost him one on Meribel the other day. He blew a stakes race the other day for 2YO's on grass because of the bearing in he was doing. I've never seen anything like it. WHy do so many horses he rides bear in? Its very strange.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Rup he didn't school anyone in that race. And had lost due to that head turning incident approaching the stretch, he woulda been crucified.
People still think the same thing Rup, talented and dumb. Does so many dumb things and so many great things that he is exasperating. He's also been doing something strange in the lane lately, horses are bearing in on him like crazy and its cost him a couple of wins and almost cost him one on Meribel the other day. He blew a stakes race the other day for 2YO's on grass because of the bearing in he was doing. I've never seen anything like it. WHy do so many horses he rides bear in? Its very strange.

I wish he could have kept that 2 year old(Admiral Bird) straight. That nose cost me $2,000. It's not his fault if a horse is trying to lug in. It would be his fault if the horse came in so bad that he fouled someone and got taken down like Jamie spencer in the Arlington Million back in 2004. When a horse is blowing by everyone on the far outside, they often lug in. The jock just has to make sure that he doesn't bother any of the other horses. Gomez does a pretty good job of making sure he doesn't foul anyone when his horses are lugging in.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Rup he didn't school anyone in that race. And had lost due to that head turning incident approaching the stretch, he woulda been crucified.
People still think the same thing Rup, talented and dumb. Does so many dumb things and so many great things that he is exasperating. He's also been doing something strange in the lane lately, horses are bearing in on him like crazy and its cost him a couple of wins and almost cost him one on Meribel the other day. He blew a stakes race the other day for 2YO's on grass because of the bearing in he was doing. I've never seen anything like it. WHy do so many horses he rides bear in? Its very strange.

Of coure he shooled them in that race. They were all killing themselves in fast fractions and he sat 15 lengths behind and let them kill themselves. If that's not schooling then I don't know what is. I only use the word "schooling" because you always use it.

By the way, do you think that he gets more run out of horses than the other jocks? I think he does.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Scat Daddy is a better horse and will beat him in the Breeders' Cup...maye not the Champagne, but in the Breeders' Cup when they stretchout around two turns and the real test in on the line....another horrid trip by Scat Daddy in the Hopeful that cost him, plus I think Circular Quay is looking more ad more like a one-turn closer specialist...we'll see, but my gut says he won't be as affective going two-turns for several reasons (and yes, I'm aware that he is a Thunder Gulch....)

Johhny V. needs to be arrested for the multiple bad rides he's already put on this talented colt....unreal in a 5-horse field....Oh yeah, he stumbled BADLY at the start ad had to be used three or so times in the race to the far turn if anybody noticed...he is the best of this generation...you can't win 'em all...thats horse racing...bad luck plays a factor..

You may be right about CQs future being a late running sprinter and his action is hard on his hind legs, just like Barbaro's was.

Scat Daddy was just out of gas coming home. I will wait to handicap his next race, it's alittle too early now.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Of coure he shooled them in that race. They were all killing themselves in fast fractions and he sat 15 lengths behind and let them kill themselves. If that's not schooling then I don't know what is. I only use the word "schooling" because you always use it.

Rupert,
That horse does exactly what he wants to do when he wants to do it. Have you seen his other races? bejarano was just a passenger. Gomez didn't choose to rate that horse, the horse did what he wants. Choosing to rate means breaking well and grabbing a hold and taking back.
he didn't do anything wrong, but his reaction when the horse started that crazy move was funny to watch. Horse took him from 15 back to 6 back in a matter of seconds. he was saving ground(the right thing to do when trailing) and when the horse started that run without him urging him, he yanked him HARD to the right because it honestly looked like he was scared that he was gonna run into the back of the leaders. That was a pretty scary move.

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

You may be right about CQs future being a late running sprinter and his action is hard on his hind legs, just like Barbaro's was.

Scat Daddy was just out of gas coming home. I will wait to handicap his next race, it's alittle too early now.

2Hot, I'm not quite sure about his action. But i will say this, that horse is running completely within his own authority. Bejarano said in the Bashford that the horse himself dove to the inside and all he did was hang on and try to get through the hole.
Gomez never asked the horse to start running when he did and he took off like a jet.
Part of his appeal to me is that while he is a headstrong horse that does exactly what he wants to do exactly when he decides to do it, is that he has some personality and loves what he is doing out there. he appears to enjoy racing quite a lot. Its the rare horse who at an early age understands what his objective is out there.
He honestly seems to enjoy what he is doing. I can't find a recent 2yo to compare him too. I honestly think hes no plodder, and I think he will be better going longer when he can stalk moreso than drop to the back of the pack.
He just throws what I call a "knockout punch".

[ArlJim78]

[quote=Danzig2]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

If you only knew why I posted here ...It isn't because "I" want to learn anything, I can assure you of that..

QUOTE]


and modest too.....

yes, he's knowledgeable AND oh so humble. we are truly blessed that he deigns to share his insights here.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by oracle80

2Hot, I'm not quite sure about his action. But i will say this, that horse is running completely within his own authority. Bejarano said in the Bashford that the horse himself dove to the inside and all he did was hang on and try to get through the hole.
Gomez never asked the horse to start running when he did and he took off like a jet.
Part of his appeal to me is that while he is a headstrong horse that does exactly what he wants to do exactly when he decides to do it, is that he has some personality and loves what he is doing out there. he appears to enjoy racing quite a lot. Its the rare horse who at an early age understands what his objective is out there.
He honestly seems to enjoy what he is doing. I can't find a recent 2yo to compare him too. I honestly think hes no plodder, and I think he will be better going longer when he can stalk moreso than drop to the back of the pack.
He just throws what I call a "knockout punch".

Don't get me wrong I like the horse and bet him yesterday. What I didn't like is how he was not intersted in the early going and the rider said he had to really get after him to get him to go. Now when he made up his mind to run it was all over. His action will develope as he matures, but it is similar to Barbaro's

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Rupert,
That horse does exactly what he wants to do when he wants to do it. Have you seen his other races? bejarano was just a passenger. Gomez didn't choose to rate that horse, the horse did what he wants. Choosing to rate means breaking well and grabbing a hold and taking back.
he didn't do anything wrong, but his reaction when the horse started that crazy move was funny to watch. Horse took him from 15 back to 6 back in a matter of seconds. he was saving ground(the right thing to do when trailing) and when the horse started that run without him urging him, he yanked him HARD to the right because it honestly looked like he was scared that he was gonna run into the back of the leaders. That was a pretty scary move.

One of the reasons that Gomez is so good is that he let's his horses settle in the place where they are most comfortable. There are pleny of jocks that would not have let that horse fall 15 lengths back. They would have been afraid to fall that far behind. They would have pushed the horse to stay closer. Gomez doesn't do that. If the pace is really fast, he's not afraid to let his horse drop 15 lengths back. I agree with you that CQ caught the field much sooner than GG was expecting. He had to swing out quicker than he was expecting.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

In your opinion, which Pletcher baby is better and will win the Hopeful? (if you think Pletcher will win the race, which appears most likely)

I think Scat Daddy is a better horse and will assert himself Monday as the early deserving favorite for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile....You could tell he was special while watching him train at Churchill Downs the two weeks before the Derby with all of Pletcher's first string.

His dam side suggests he'll at least get the 1 1/16-mile distance of the Breeders' Cup Juvenile (although I'm not sure the Derby distance will suit him at three being that he is a Johanessburg...may be more of a miler type, we'll see...)

He is the goods though....

He's greener than Kermit. Would like to see Pletcher put him on the sidelines until next year. As of right now CQ is much the best.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

sorry, don't see the need to drag a third party into this silly stuff. Steve has enough to do. What happened to the honor system? If these two both end up entered in the race we'll confirm it at that time.

There is no such thing in this business.....ask Petino about Zito, any pinhookers about O'Byrne, Satish Sanan about Lukas and Baffert, Fipke about Baffert, Jess Jackson about Headley.....get my drift?..Or would you like me to keep going?

I may work something out with you, but scumbag agents are the dirtiest players in our game and I won't wager that highly with people of that character level....remember, I am from New Orleans - not the back of a bus...

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I personally don't care why you post here, so again, no need to prove yourself to anyone. It's about being a stand up person. When you make claims for months before, and are wrong, admit it. Because we know you would be gloating, had Scat won. Again, YOU are the post race analyzer. You did it after the Hopeful remember. And we'll all hear you do it today on ATRAB. Can't wait for you to "analyze" the Hopeful.

Actually, you won't hear me, but thats another story

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

There is no such thing in this business.....ask Petino about Zito, any pinhookers about O'Byrne, Satish Sanan about Lukas and Baffert, Fipke about Baffert, Jess Jackson about Headley.....get my drift?..Or would you like me to keep going?

I may work something out with you, but scumbag agents are the dirtiest players in our game and I won't wager that highly with people of that character level....remember, I am from New Orleans - not the back of a bus...

Ok, so whats your gripe with Nick? He has at least two good friends on this board that i know of, and hes a man of honor and character. Hes also legendary for helping out characters at the racetrack. Anyone whos ever been by his barn could tell you that.
Thats low. And if you are gonna jump on me, thats fine. I don't care. But don't screw with Nick.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Wrong once again. Here is Pletchers's quote from BH yesterday;

"I think this puts both horses right at the top of the class," Pletcher continued. "I thought Scat Daddy, considering everything, was the one horse that finished up well out of the speed duel. Circular Quay... is the divisional leader at this stage."

Doesn't sound to me like he was making it real clear that Scat Daddy is the best in the barn. If he considers CQ the divisional leader I believe that covers everyone in his barn.

We'll see when they go two turns...I have already acknowledged that CQ won the Hopeful and didn't take anything away from his perfromance and I went a step further by stating that he would probbably win the Champagne if entered - BUT, I still believe Scat Daddy will be better around two turns.....

[quote=Danzig2]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

If you only knew why I posted here ...It isn't because "I" want to learn anything, I can assure you of that..

QUOTE]


and modest too.....

I don't see a modesty issue with that quote....If you only understood, my boy

[quote=Cunningham Racing]

Originally Posted by Danzig2

I don't see a modesty issue with that quote....If you only understood, my boy

Joel, shes a girl.
And I don't see a need for you to be modest if you slam dunk something. When you called out all the Darley/Godolphin/ Zabeel horses earlier this year you had a right to thump your chest, even if they are payed low win prices.
Anyone with a good and strong opinion is gonna be egocentric, thats just how it works.
But you are gonna be wrong more often than you are right, we all are. thats how racing is. You don't have to take being wrong as a personal offense. Its not the kind of game for that. Being wrong is a major part of this game.