Jon v Andy

[Rootdog1]

Since there have been lots of comments regarding Jon I wanted to say something. I am sure I am in the minority here, but I applaud both Jon and Andy for taking a STRONG position on POTN in a public forum like ATR/etc. It is easy to sit faceless and nameless on a board and tout, but they both took a stance and both had reasonable assumptions to support it. They know that bozos like me are going to have smart a$$ comments after the race for one of them, and I appreciate their passion and courage. I am sure neither care what I think, but still felt compelled to say it. Finally, I am still not sure what to do with POTN but I am leaning towards Andy's view (and you all know I am a Cali homer).

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

Since there have been lots of comments regarding Jon I wanted to say something. I am sure I am in the minority here, but I applaud both Jon and Andy for taking a STRONG position on POTN in a public forum like ATR/etc. It is easy to sit faceless and nameless on a board and tout, but they both took a stance and both had reasonable assumptions to support it. They know that bozos like me are going to have smart a$$ comments after the race for one of them, and I appreciate their passion and courage. I am sure neither care what I think, but still felt compelled to say it. Finally, I am still not sure what to do with POTN but I am leaning towards Andy's view (and you all know I am a Cali homer).

I admire the passion on either side of the argument no doubt about it.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

I admire the passion on either side of the argument no doubt about it.

agreed, but Jon's is a LITTLE over the top by predicting a TC winner.

Then again, it is a lot easier to tout against a horse than to tout pro-horse as 19 horses will lose the Derby.

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by robfla

agreed, but Jon's is a LITTLE over the top by predicting a TC winner.
Then again, it is a lot easier to tout against a horse than to tout pro-horse as 19 horses will lose the Derby.

Well, at least in saying that he says "could see a TC winner" not flat out says the horse will win the TC. In any case I admire the guy for staying committed with his strong opinion, even though it certainly does get a bit annoying to hear him ramble on about POTN for minutes on end.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

Since there have been lots of comments regarding Jon I wanted to say something. I am sure I am in the minority here, but I applaud both Jon and Andy for taking a STRONG position on POTN in a public forum like ATR/etc. It is easy to sit faceless and nameless on a board and tout, but they both took a stance and both had reasonable assumptions to support it. They know that bozos like me are going to have smart a$$ comments after the race for one of them, and I appreciate their passion and courage. I am sure neither care what I think, but still felt compelled to say it. Finally, I am still not sure what to do with POTN but I am leaning towards Andy's view (and you all know I am a Cali homer).

Very informative, for all of us that didnt catch the show why dont you clue us in on their positions.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Very informative, for all of us that didnt catch the show why dont you clue us in on their positions.

http://www.thoroughbredracingradione...ents&Itemid=35

[jms62]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Very informative, for all of us that didnt catch the show why dont you clue us in on their positions.

Quick Summary (In my own words)

John:

POTN Triple Triple Crown Potential
Will be better on dirt

Andy: (cough, cough)
No shot and won't hit the board, anyone who thinks other is nuts
Alluded that there is a reason he started off on Turf as opposed to dirt.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by jms62

Quick Summary (In my own words)

John:

POTN Triple Triple Crown Potential
Will be better on dirt

Andy: (cough, cough)
No shot and won't hit the board, anyone who thinks other is nuts
Alluded that there is a reason he started off on Turf as opposed to dirt.

Thanks, Im listening to Johns dribble right now. How can you compare POTN to Point Given just because they raced in the same stakes. Does he not realize that they were two different surfaces and you need different running styles. And this polyrat will win the Triple Crown? I agree with Andy 150% POTN WILL NOT HIT THE BOARD! Save your money people the horse has no shot.

Will this idiot go into hiding after the derby? Lets hope.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by jms62

Quick Summary (In my own words)

John:

POTN Triple POTN POTN Triple Crown POTN Potential POTN
Will POTN be OMG1!!11!! POTN better on dirt.

...

POTN

Andy: (cough, cough)
No shot and won't hit the board, anyone who thinks other is nuts
Alluded that there is a reason he started off on Turf as opposed to dirt.

I haven't listened, but from what I've gathered reading here, I think I FTFY.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Thanks, Im listening to Johns dribble right now. How can you compare POTN to Point Given just because they raced in the same stakes. Does he not realize that they were two different surfaces and you need different running styles. And this polyrat will win the Triple Crown? I agree with Andy 150% POTN WILL NOT HIT THE BOARD! Save your money people the horse has no shot.

Will this idiot go into hiding after the derby? Lets hope.

He is far from an idiot. He simply has a strong opinion on the horse that he is going to back... It is the nature of the game we play. We think our opinion is the only one that is correct and all others are morons. We are putting money on it.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by jms62

He is far from an idiot. He simply has a strong opinion on the horse that he is going to back... It is the nature of the game we play. We think our opinion is the only one that is correct and all others are morons. We are putting money on it.

Hes an IDIOT

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

wile he is no idiot j.w has beaten this drum to death..andy is looking at realitys on the handicapping side.its a whole lot to ask for this horse to make the switch in surface and beat some others in here who could be better suited.

[Antitrust32]

I wonder how much he's going to bet on his triple winner on saturday.

hope he doesnt bet the ranch!!

Though... with so many quality horses out of the race POTN could run in the money just because of class.

I have no clue what this horse is going to do on Saturday, and that worries me when it comes to wagering!

[Bobby Fischer]

serling towers over JW

[CSC]

Originally Posted by robfla

agreed, but Jon's is a LITTLE over the top by predicting a TC winner.

Then again, it is a lot easier to tout against a horse than to tout pro-horse as 19 horses will lose the Derby.

In all honesty both should be commended; however let's be honest it's alot tougher position to be bullish about touting a winner than saying you are against one horse, regardless of the reasons. I think White is taking some over the top ribbing here. I respect a guy that is a public handicapper and is so vocal in his beliefs. The odds are against the guy and that makes it even more surprising he has put himself out there, but good on him for doing so. It's the one's that hedge that I have little time for.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

wile he is no idiot j.w has beaten this drum to death..andy is looking at realitys on the handicapping side.its a whole lot to ask for this horse to make the switch in surface and beat some others in here who could be better suited.

The big question that I am struggling with is will the First Time Dirt guys hit the super. Last year I think their best finish was 6th. Would love to narrow down contenders for my annual stab at a big super.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by jms62

The big question that I am struggling with is will the First Time Dirt guys hit the super. Last year I think their best finish was 6th. Would love to narrow down contenders for my annual stab at a big super.

Do you really think it had to do with synthetic to dirt or maybe it was because those horses who ran on syn sucked and everyone knew it.

I believe the only horse going from syn to dirt in the Derby who every won anything else of substance was Colonel John and that was a really bad Travers stakes.

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Hes an IDIOT

Look, just because you have a different opinion than the guy does not make him an idiot! This guy works hours and hours, he's a freakin machine of knowledge about racing which I very much appreciate. Yes the constant POTN stuff gets annoying, he may be dead wrong here, but he is not an idiot. I have alot of respect for Jon White, and the contributations he brings to ATR.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

Look, just because you have a different opinion than the guy does not make him an idiot! This guy works hours and hours, he's a freakin machine of knowledge about racing which I very much appreciate. Yes the constant POTN stuff gets annoying, he may be dead wrong here, but he is not an idiot. I have alot of respect for Jon White, and the contributations he brings to ATR.

Jon White is pretty solid IMO, he may be dead ass wrong here but that does not change a lifes work as a professional handicapper and gambler.

I know its hard to believe but even the great Serling once said IWR was a mediocrity, of course it was at that point I started searching out futures

[satan's twin]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

serling towers over JW

The other guy must be Jimminy Cricket.