Borel off Bird for Rachel in Preakness - Page 3

freddymo · #41 05-07-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

No it isn't but I am not going to get into the statistics, maybe 1 out of 20 go against the data that shows huge jump up efforts hurt horses, especially YOUNG ones < 4 years of age

I am not so sure her last was a huge effort for her. She ran a fig that was well within her comfort zone Scav.. It's not like she tossed a 123 at them. Remember she did beat dog biscuits and its not like she was used real hard the last 1/2 mile.. Ideally you wouldn't run her in 14 days but she isn't going to be running that much longer anyway..Remember they have to breed her to Curlin before his 2 year olds flop..lol

Dunbar · #42 05-07-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

Agree. See my avatar, for example.

Injuries happen all the time. It may be tempting to attribute an injury to a training decision, but I don't think that conclusion would bear up under any rigorous scrutiny. IWR was looking great in training leading up to the Derby, according to Mike Welch. The Pamplemousse and Quality Road also missed the Derby due to injuries, as did Midshipman and Vineyard Haven. Did all of those horses race too much?

Was Rachel Alexandra's Oaks run all that much more exerting than a workout?

--Dunbar

dagolfer33 · #43 05-07-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

JD Acosta? What, no Gerald Almodovar?

Not for nothing, guys, but the way she jogged in the Oaks, I can't imagine she wouldn't be ready to come back for the Preakness.

There couldn't have been a better and more lucrative workout than the Oaks to prepare her for this race....you're correct.

philcski · #44 05-07-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

This is such a bunch of b.s. and why we have paper tiger Champions.

!!!

You tell it, girl.

MaTH716 · #45 05-07-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

I am not so sure her last was a huge effort for her. She ran a fig that was well within her comfort zone Scav.. It's not like she tossed a 123 at them. Remember she did beat dog biscuits and its not like she was used real hard the last 1/2 mile.. Ideally you wouldn't run her in 14 days but she isn't going to be running that much longer anyway..Remember they have to breed her to Curlin before his 2 year olds flop..lol

I agree with Freddy, she looked like she was in cruise control in the stretch and was still pulling away. The race almost looked like a public work. In my opinion (which means nothing), I don't think that the Oaks to much out of her tank.

Kasept · #46 05-07-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

As for Borel's horse whisper ways with Rachel, you may want to take that with a small grain of salt, I am sure any top flight jock would be fine and I am sure he loves riding her who wouldn't..

You never know Freddy.. It can take a ride or two to work out communication between horse and rider. Pat Kelly has told me a lot about difficult to ride horses with Naughty New Yorker as the specific horse on the topic. He isn't a horse you can throw any rider on...

During the Street Sense campaign, not that it necessarily applies the same way here, but Carl Nafzger also was very specific that Borel was his rider of choice for the Juvy/Derby/Travers winner because he was a guy that would communicate to the trainer the nuances he was experiencing on board. Nafzger wanted that so he could make adjustments in the training of the horse.

Don't disagree that they may be Ferraris and Cameros, but few of them have automatic transmissions.

geeker2 · #47 05-07-2009, 10:33 AM

I hope they keep the jock selection suspenseful - just like the Dunkirk/POTN decision

#48 05-07-2009, 10:35 AM

I'd like to see Jon Court ride Mine that Bird just to see his wife's huge ta ta's on Jockeys.

gales0678 · #49 05-07-2009, 10:35 AM

steve - look at JD bailey he won of the biggest races of the year one time without ever being on the horse and even being able to talk to the trainer

#50 05-07-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Don't disagree that they may be Ferraris and Cameros, but few of them have automatic transmissions.

Good lord I hope they're not using what I think they're using for the stick.

philcski · #51 05-07-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I'd like to see Jon Court ride Mine that Bird just to see his wife's huge ta ta's on Jockeys.

But he can't win, he's a low percentage jockey.

freddymo · #52 05-07-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

You never know Freddy.. It can take a ride or two to work out communication between horse and rider. Pat Kelly has told me a lot about difficult to ride horses with Naughty New Yorker as the specific horse on the topic. He isn't a horse you can throw any rider on...

During the Street Sense campaign, not that it necessarily applies the same way here, but Carl Nafzger also was very specific that Borel was his rider of choice for the Juvy/Derby/Travers winner because he was a guy that would communicate to the trainer the nuances he was experiencing on board. Nafzger wanted that so he could make adjustments in the training of the horse.

Don't disagree that they may be Ferraris and Cameros, but few of them have automatic transmissions.

I have heard that Zito doesn't allow jocks to work his horses in the morning. I am not sure if it is true but perhaps his horses come with special equipment? There is no denying a chemistry forms between the the jock and the horse..

King Glorious · #53 05-07-2009, 10:48 AM

So two weeks is too soon to bring her back but the horses from the Derby can come back with one less day after running harder and longer?

johnny pinwheel · #54 05-07-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Are we all in agreement that Borel had a significant impact in Mine that Bird's Derby win? If so, this has to be a VERY big deal.

yeah, but the derby is the only triple crown race where a jockey can pull that move. if this horse were to get out last in the preakness and try that last up the rail deal on a fast pimlico track, hes got no shot. and in the belmont it happens like every ten years, if that and the closer usually comes wide off the turn there. calvin does well at CD but like someone said at the other tracks hes just another jock. face it,that horse may never get a better set-up, no matter who rides him. on form, the derby may be a total toss race. we will soon find out.

Bobby Fischer · #55 05-07-2009, 10:49 AM

jockeys are meaningless, i learned this in kindergarten

Travis Stone · #56 05-07-2009, 10:51 AM

I really doubt Jackson would spend $10 million just to sit on her for the Acorn. Though I feel the galloped home stuff is overrated, she barely even lifted a foot in the Ky. Oaks. I say the Preakness is a go!

Fans are funny. For one, we want these superstars to race and make headlines and try stuff... now we have the chance, and it's "Mr. Jackson, please don't run her..." Yadda yadda yadda.

gales0678 · #57 05-07-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

yeah, but the derby is the only triple crown race where a jockey can pull that move. if this horse were to get out last in the preakness and try that last up the rail deal on a fast pimlico track, hes got no shot. and in the belmont it happens like every ten years, if that and the closer usually comes wide off the turn there. calvin does well at CD but like someone said at the other tracks hes just another jock. face it,that horse may never get a better set-up, no matter who rides him. on form, the derby may be a total toss race. we will soon find out.

johnny why won't MTB pair up in the preakness?

Rootdog1 · #58 05-07-2009, 10:54 AM

Is it a big deal, yes. Is it suprising, no.

Again, I think Borel said MTB wont repeat and they can cruise to a nice G1 check in the preakness. No other reason to run her back this quick. Regardless of how easy you think she won, she runs hard and rest is needed. The question in my mind is can she win at 80%? I would say...easily.

Rootdog1 · #59 05-07-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I really doubt Jackson would spend $10 million just to sit on her for the Acorn. Though I feel the galloped home stuff is overrated, she barely even lifted a foot in the Ky. Oaks. I say the Preakness is a go!

Fans are funny. For one, we want these superstars to race and make headlines and try stuff... now we have the chance, and it's "Mr. Jackson, please don't run her..." Yadda yadda yadda.

Hey, Yadda Yadda - what is the benefit of running her on two weeks rest after that effort. I agree take on the boys, but why not wait for a tired bunch of colts in the Belmont?

Scav · #60 05-07-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rootdog1

Hey, Yadda Yadda - what is the benefit of running her on two weeks rest after that effort. I agree take on the boys, buy why not wait for a tired bunch of colts in the Belmont?

Forget the Preakness and the Belmont, why not have her ready for the Travers? I have no idea on this but how many times has a filly even tried the Travers, let alone won it, it can't be very many...

Now that would be historic (Given I am right about fillies not contesting the Travers)

http://www.nyra.com/Saratoga/Stakes/Travers.shtml

Link is a historic view of the Travers, are there any fillies on there?