9/18 (LaD): Super Derby (G2)

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

The Super Derby was also a G1 during many of those years, connections were willing to run longer distances, and the overall racing picture was significantly different. That being said, the Super Derby, like the current PA Derby, seems to have had trouble getting marquee horses in recent years, and now they as proving grounds for late developing 3YO, or those attempting to rekindle form from earlier in the season. That's the way it is.

Money talks. When the Super Derby was introduced, its $500k purse made it the richest 3yo race in the country. It was bumped up to a million in 1987 to keep it among the top 3yos races in purses.

Times have changed. Now you have rich 3yo races like the Indiana Derby and West Virginia Derby, and even the Pennsylvania Derby has a huge purse. The Jim Dandy has always been a nice race, but it didn't become a $100k stakes until 1984 and didn't pay more than $120k to the winner until 1997

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

just the super derby

Tiznow won both the goodwood and the super derby and finished in the money in the pacific classic as well in 2000.

[Travis Stone]

In case anyone missed it, be sure to check out the fun contest with cool prizes for Saturday's card...

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...289#post566289

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

1983 brought you Sunny's Halo.
1984 Gate Dancer and Precisionist
1985 Creme Fraiche
1986 Wise Times (Haskell and Travers winner)
1987 Alysheba
1988 Seeking the Gold
1989 Sunday Silence
1990 Unbridled

There were other good ones that came there. In my opinion, the race went downhill once it was reduced from 10f to 9f. At 10f, it was one of the best preps for the Classic that we had. The distance was fine and it offered plenty of time to recover and get ready for the Classic.

Hell, I liked Soto vs Ten Most Wanted in 2003.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Hell, I liked Soto vs Ten Most Wanted in 2003.

My favorite Super Derby was when the "Great Mecke" ran them all down like they were standing still, from going last to first with Jerry Bailey aboard.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

1983 brought you Sunny's Halo.
1984 Gate Dancer and Precisionist
1985 Creme Fraiche
1986 Wise Times (Haskell and Travers winner)
1987 Alysheba
1988 Seeking the Gold
1989 Sunday Silence
1990 Unbridled

There were other good ones that came there. In my opinion, the race went downhill once it was reduced from 10f to 9f. At 10f, it was one of the best preps for the Classic that we had. The distance was fine and it offered plenty of time to recover and get ready for the Classic.

Best Pal, Free House, Deputy Commander, Awesome Again, Will's Way. It has definitely attracted some good ones.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by CSC

My favorite Super Derby was when the "Great Mecke" ran them all down like they were standing still, from going last to first with Jerry Bailey aboard.

For excitement, it is hard to top the Wallenda-Franks entry wild finish in 1993.
But the sentimental pick is the 1991 win by La-bred Free Spirit's Joy.

[Linny]

This race, like many others is a victim of trainers interest in more time between races. They want to space their horses' races at 6 week intervals and as such, the idea of Travers-Super Derby-Goodwood (or JCGC) is no longer acceptable.
September has become the "lost month" in racing, esp when the BC is late. Meets like Saratoga and Del Mar grab leading BC candidates with big money finales like the Pac Classic, Woodward, Travers plus big events for other divisions. After that, "six weeks" takes you into October and those big weekends at BEL, SA and KEE that Travis mentioned. From there, it's on to the Cup.

As an aside, last weekend was a triumph for those of us that like to see horses RACE. Swift Temper won a G1 on 13 days rest, off a second in a G1. She beat a filly who was back from 6 weeks. Bold Union was second in the Victory Ride then won a stake at Delaware 2 weeks later. A few hours later multiple G1 winner Informed Decision beat 3 other G1 winners in the Masters, again on 2 weeks rest. Ghost Fleet returned to Poly at Woodbine to win the Swynford S off 15 days from a turf allowance.
Lemonette is back in action this weekend at AP off a second on Labor Day in the Glens Falls.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

For excitement, it is hard to top the Wallenda-Franks entry wild finish in 1993.
But the sentimental pick is the 1991 win by La-bred Free Spirit's Joy.

I remember seeing that race, w/o googling, can anyone remember who rode Wallenda that race? Jock reappeared last yr after a stint in retirement...

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

I remember seeing that race, w/o googling, can anyone remember who rode Wallenda that race? Jock reappeared last yr after a stint in retirement...

Hollywood Herb.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Hollywood Herb.

NT

He certainly outrode Craig Perret that day.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by CSC

He certainly outrode Craig Perret that day.

Was Perret aboard Peteski? I remember that horse could not deal with the Louisiana heat.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Was Perret aboard Peteski? I remember that horse could not deal with the Louisiana heat.

Yes he was, I think Peteski suffered from CPPM effect or what I like to refer to as the "Craig Premature Perret Move". Who knows it may have been the heat but Perret always irked me with his outside half mile moves. Another one I can recall was his ride on With Approval in the BC turf.

I'll give Spyder the credit for the is vid. This is a good illustration of what I thought of Perret as a rider.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Linny

This race, like many others is a victim of trainers interest in more time between races. They want to space their horses' races at 6 week intervals and as such, the idea of Travers-Super Derby-Goodwood (or JCGC) is no longer acceptable.
September has become the "lost month" in racing, esp when the BC is late. Meets like Saratoga and Del Mar grab leading BC candidates with big money finales like the Pac Classic, Woodward, Travers plus big events for other divisions. After that, "six weeks" takes you into October and those big weekends at BEL, SA and KEE that Travis mentioned. From there, it's on to the Cup

This point is spot-on. Trainers demand spacing...how many times in recent years have we seend...Travers to BC, Pac Classic to BC, Woodward to BC, ______ race to similar BC race.

This is part of the reason I look down on the arguments that races such as the Super Derby and others are drawing "bad fields" - it's comparing two completely different periods in horse racing. Even eight to ten years ago, I'd argue things were different.

Overall, the rest of the racing world is often completely different than North America on this fact as well. Horses might have longer layoffs (due to racing seasonality), but will often run a load of races in short periods of time.

Similarly, I can only hope that the declining auction receipts, as seen this week, will encourage a reduction in stud fees, which will result in horses racing longer so as to make their stud prospects more viable, and stand out versus others.

Trainers demand spacing because most of them are morons who bow down to the sheets/tg gods. Not all horses are alike and just like in any sport champions are made through adversity and how many times they win.

Your arguments are null and void and only contribute to this sport being a virtual unknown to most sport fans. If this bs of 6 week spacing continues you'll more than likely see cornhole pass horse racing in terms of popularity.

[CSC]

93 Super Derby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qHvz4Fqzk0

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Trainers demand spacing because most of them are morons who bow down to the sheets/tg gods. Not all horses are alike and just like in any sport champions are made through adversity and how many times they win.

Your arguments are null and void and only contribute to this sport being a virtual unknown to most sport fans. If this bs of 6 week spacing continues you'll more than likely see cornhole pass horse racing in terms of popularity.

Is this directed at me? The fact is that trainers want 6 weeks, not that I think it's a good idea. Read the last paragraph, the part where I sing the praises of horses returning on short rest and winning stakes.

It wasn't directed at you.

[Linny]

Good. I dislike the 6-8 week spacing as much as anyone and have seen it trickle down into allowance races thus hurting meet like Saratoga which is forced to use $35kN2L grass races to make up a card.

[MISTERGEE]

has anyone ever made a scientific study to see if animals who run 2 minutes at most have any physical differences in capacities after 4 weeks, or 5 weeks, or 6 weeks ar any period of time for that matter?