ramon and rajiv

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

For Example: Gomez, Desormaux, Mike Smith, Edgar Prado, Leparoux, Bejarano are some who for sure rank highr than Dominguez.

Nonsense. There's no way Smith, Prado or Bejarano rank higher than him. Gomez yeah, Desormeaux maybe, Leparoux maybe. It's not even an argument, Dominguez is a top five jock right now.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Who cares about setting win records. Russel Baze does it year after year. Do you consider him one of the better jockeys today???

Just take a look at the Money Earned and Races Won list on the DRF page. Dominguez is third moneywise not because of Graded Stakes but because he racks up Claiming MSW and ALW wins. Gomez, Leparoux, Garcia, Desourmaux
are on the list because they rack up graded stakes. Dominguez is by no means a horrible jockey but he is not a top tier rider yet.

Does Russel Baze ride in the deepest jockey coloney in the country or does he ride on a circuit where he constantly has the best mount in 5 horse races?
What Dominguez has done in NY this year is pretty impressive.
Also, doesn't he have over 40 stakes wins this year? Didn't he win a few big races aboard Gio Ponti? He won a few with Fabulous Strike too, right?
I just don't know what point you are trying to make. Sure he's not Gomez, but then again who is. If Ramon went out there he is in the top 3 immediately. And all of a sudden Mike Smith is Eddie Arcaro? I remember a couple of years ago, Mike Smith off was a betting angle. But I guess Zenyatta has single handily brought him off that list.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Who cares about setting win records. Russel Baze does it year after year. Do you consider him one of the better jockeys today???

Just take a look at the Money Earned and Races Won list on the DRF page. Dominguez is third moneywise not because of Graded Stakes but because he racks up Claiming MSW and ALW wins. Gomez, Leparoux, Garcia, Desourmaux
are on the list because they rack up graded stakes. Dominguez is by no means a horrible jockey but he is not a top tier rider yet.

Dominguez is on the top of that list because he wins a lot of races. That's because he's good. He also rides on the best circuit in America. Comparing him to Russell Baze is ludicrous.

He had a good Derby mount this year in Desert Party and hopefully his Derby mounts will get better going forward (although staying in NY is not gonna help).

He didn't have a great deal of good BC mounts because he doesn't have a big barn for which he's a 1st call rider. He had a chance with a horse like Dublin but he flopped in the Champagne. He's also in NY full-time for the first time.

He's absolutely a top tier rider. Without question.

NT

[dalakhani]

I will have to respectfully disagree with the dominguez bashers. I have been watching Ramon for years and if he isnt a top jockey at this point i dont know who is. He can ride any horse on any surface.

You would really take Mike Smith as an all around jockey at this point over Dominguez? Really?

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

What are you talking about? Dominguez won the Saratoga riding title and set the record for wins at the spring-summer Belmont meet.

The argument you're trying to make could have been made in April when Dominguez was JUST an inner track specialist. He has proven this year that he can ride all over the NY circuit.

The very fact that you put Bejarano and Prado ahead of Dominguez is laughable. Prado is one notch above a joke at this stage in his career.

NT

Whats the difference of what Bejarano did in So Cal than what Dominguez did in NY?? Did they not both win all titles at thier respective circuits? Bejarano (2008) and Dominguez (2009). For some reason you think Dominguez ranks higher with regular jockeys like Prado, Velasquez, Garcia, Maragh, Desormaux moving in and out of the circuit to ride in FL and KY. You can say NY jockey colony is deeper but that can be argued.

Put Prado's resume and Dominguez resume in front of two people who know nothing about horse racing and they can tell you who has achieved more. Please! Even if Prado is in a slump right now, there is no way his entire career is tarnished because of it.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I will have to respectfully disagree with the dominguez bashers. I have been watching Ramon for years and if he isnt a top jockey at this point i dont know who is. He can ride any horse on any surface.

You would really take Mike Smith as an all around jockey at this point over Dominguez? Really?

if smith rode gio ponti and ramon rode zenyatta you have a different winner last saturday at the bcc

on the pro surface track you need to be far outside and wide coming for home , ramon got trapped inside and never gave his horse a chance to see zenyatta coming

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by gales0678

if smith rode gio ponti and ramon rode zenyatta you have a different winner last saturday at the bcc

on the pro surface track you need to be far outside and wide coming for home , ramon got trapped inside and never gave his horse a chance to see zenyatta coming

Please give up the rant on the Gio Ponti ride. The ride was completely flawless, and as a person who bet him, I couldn't have asked for a better trip for my money. Smith's ride was great as well and he had the best horse on the day that's why he won. Furthest Land and Vale of York both won their races with similar trips to Gio Ponti, so this argument that the inside wasn't the place to be is absurd.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

Please give up the rant on the Gio Ponti ride. The ride was completely flawless, and as a person who bet him, I couldn't have asked for a better trip for my money. Smith's ride was great as well and he had the best horse on the day that's why he won. Furthest Land and Vale of York both won their races with similar trips to Gio Ponti, so this argument that the inside wasn't the place to be is absurd.

again tell me where the best part of the track was that day and for the days leading up to the cup - if the inside was so good why did mike smith go from tracking RD to go way way wide on the far turn? why did ramon try to get outside but got blocked twice by the #3 horse - simpky inexcusible

smith knew where to go he swung way wide to the best part of the surface and jerry bailey made note of it - right after the race saying he earned every $ today for the connections with his flawless ride

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by gales0678

if smith rode gio ponti and ramon rode zenyatta you have a different winner last saturday at the bcc

on the pro surface track you need to be far outside and wide coming for home , ramon got trapped inside and never gave his horse a chance to see zenyatta coming

Thats hard to say. I really thought Gomez should have ridden Gio Pionti but Zenyatta was all the best that day.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Thats hard to say. I really thought Gomez should have ridden Gio Pionti but Zenyatta was all the best that day.

gio ponti never saw zenyatta , how do you know she gets bye him if ramon is right on the outside , right next to her

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by gales0678

again tell me where the best part of the track was that day and for the days leading up to the cup - if the inside was so good why did mike smith go from tracking RD to go way way wide on the far turn? why did ramon try to get outside but got blocked twice by the #3 horse - simpky inexcusible

smith knew where to go he swung way wide to the best part of the surface and jerry bailey made note of it - right after the race saying he earned every $ today for the connections with his flawless ride

He went outside because there was nowhere to go after Gio Ponti went through the only open spot inside. Ramon was patient as he always is and the hole opened up and he hit it perfectly. I'm not sure where you can see him getting blocked at any point really. Do you really think that if Ramon opted to go outside, which means he would have had to go out 4 or 5 paths and was much closer to the leaders than Smith was at the time, that Gio Ponti would have warded off Zenyatta's stronger late kick? Watch his ride on Carribean Sunset this year in the Diana and let me know if that was a bad ride as well where he narrowly lost to Forever Together on an overmatched horse. That was a very similar ride in the stretch to the Gio Ponti ride.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Put Prado's resume and Dominguez resume in front of two people who know nothing about horse racing and they can tell you who has achieved more. Please! Even if Prado is in a slump right now, there is no way his entire career is tarnished because of it.

What Prado accomplished in the past is irrelevant to who is the better rider today, and Dominguez is consistently the best rider on the NYRA circuit today. Just look at who's riding these guys. Name one outfit presently for whom Prado rides first call.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by gales0678

gio ponti never saw zenyatta , how do you know she gets bye him if ramon is right on the outside , right next to her

I am not going to criticize Dominguez's ride on Gio Pionti but a jockey ideally would like to take the shortest route to the finish line and for Domininguez he saw the inside to be wide wide open and he rightfully took it.

For Zenyatta, mike smith, in every race, swings her outside and stays in the outer path all the way. Zenyatta is such a big horse and its hard for anyone to split horses like smith attempted to do so instead he swings farther outside and then she was gone.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by gales0678

Maragh - terrible ride in the last at NY

both on favorites

can someone help these guys to give better rides? maybe some lessons from Angel in the am's will help

Maragh is going to be a top rider for a long time. I'd guess that his turf ROI is off the charts.

Angel is really doing wonders for JRV these days.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Nonsense. There's no way Smith, Prado or Bejarano rank higher than him. Gomez yeah, Desormeaux maybe, Leparoux maybe. It's not even an argument, Dominguez is a top five jock right now.

I was about to type pretty much the same thing, then saw your post. I couldn't agree more.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by gales0678

if smith rode gio ponti and ramon rode zenyatta you have a different winner last saturday at the bcc

on the pro surface track you need to be far outside and wide coming for home , ramon got trapped inside and never gave his horse a chance to see zenyatta coming

Please stop... Gio Ponti exploded through that opening and was easily gunned down by the GOAT.

[RockHardTen1985]

I think the top 5 is clear cut right now... Ramon, Julian, Garcia, Kent and Gomez.... That's in order.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Nonsense. There's no way Smith, Prado or Bejarano rank higher than him. Gomez yeah, Desormeaux maybe, Leparoux maybe. It's not even an argument, Dominguez is a top five jock right now.

I dont know what and how you consider him better than anyone one of them. If you go by acomplischments thus far then Dominguez has to be dead last on that list. If you want to compare him in the last year or so then top 10 he is for sure. Top 5 maybe not

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I dont know what and how you consider him better than anyone one of them. If you go by acomplischments thus far then Dominguez has to be dead last on that list. If you want to compare him in the last year or so then top 10 he is for sure. Top 5 maybe not

So because Dominguez has no Triple Crown or BC wins he's not a Top 5 rider?

Sure, I mean, why not base a jockey's standing on the results of 17 races when he rides 1700 races a year.

NT

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

So because Dominguez has no Triple Crown or BC wins he's not a Top 5 rider?

Sure, I mean, why not base a jockey's standing on the results of 17 races when he rides 1700 races a year.

NT

He actually won the Turf on Better Talk Now in '04. Couldn't agree more with you though.