SYMPOSIUM: Horsemen, jocks at odds on new losing mount fee increase

[Kasept]

Jockeys, horsemen clash on mount fees
By Matt Hegarty

http://www.drf.com/news/article/109435.html

TUCSON, Ariz. - Representatives of jockeys and trainers clashed Tuesday afternoon during a panel presentation at the University of Arizona's Symposium on Racing and Gaming over a model rule that sets minimums for the amount of money owners must pay riders in races.

Representatives of two major horsemen's organizations, the National Horsemen's Benevolent and Protective Association and the National Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association, said that they strongly objected to Saturday's endorsement by the Association of Racing Commissioners International of the model rule, a vote that was supported by the Jockeys' Guild.

The rule codifies broad matrices of increases in losing mount fees based on the identity of the track and the purses of the race, and it calls for mount fees to be indexed to the government's cost-of-living adjustment used for Social Security payments. Under the model rule, some losing mount fees would increase by 100 percent.

Jeff Johnston, a regional manager for the Jockeys' Guild, said the increases address nearly two decades of stagnation in losing mount fees. Johnston said that jockeys were paid an average of $40 in losing mount fees in 1985 and that mount fees only increased once since then, by $5 in 2001, before the Guild began pushing individual tracks to increase fees last year.

Horsemen's representatives, however, countered that the losing mount fees should be subject to negotiation between a track's jockey colony and its horsemen's group and not set by racing regulators. They also claimed that the cost-of-living adjustment did not properly reflect economic conditions in the racing industry, which started stagnating in inflation-adjusted terms a decade ago and began declining in recent years.

"As newly minted as the model rule is, we seek a repeal of it," said Joe Santanna, president of the National HBPA.

The disagreement between the two groups has largely been played out behind the scenes over the past year, and the public airing of the two sides' grievances reflected the sharp divisions between opponents and supporters. Mike Campbell, president of the Illinois Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association, said that negotiations between jockeys and horsemen this year over the issue at Arlington Park and Hawthorne dominated relations between the groups for 10 months, with trainers accusing other trainers of being traitors and jockeys threatening walkouts.... MORE

[Cannon Shell]

This is the stupidest thing to argue about. Jockeys have gotten huge increases in winning mount fees at a lot of tracks which they always seem to forget. But the horseman are too rigid in some cases. What the hell is the difference between giving the guy $50 or $60 bucks a mount?

What I really want to know is what the least effective and biggest joke of an organization in racing (a tough thing to be considering the many useless groups), the ACRI is doing setting fee schedules? They cant effectively run their own house or enforce the rules they have without coming up with complex indexes modeled after federal COLA's? That is a joke. So if the current handle trend continues or levels off the jocks will get a raise every year while everyone else takes it on the chin? C'mon man....

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is the stupidest thing to argue about. Jockeys have gotten huge increases in winning mount fees at a lot of tracks which they always seem to forget. But the horseman are too rigid in some cases. What the hell is the difference between giving the guy $50 or $60 bucks a mount?

What I really want to know is what the least effective and biggest joke of an organization in racing (a tough thing to be considering the many useless groups), the ACRI is doing setting fee schedules? They cant effectively run their own house or enforce the rules they have without coming up with complex indexes modeled after federal COLA's? That is a joke. So if the current handle trend continues or levels off the jocks will get a raise every year while everyone else takes it on the chin? C'mon man....

Respectfully giving your trainer 10% of the winning purse vs. 10% of your net is bit off the mark as well IMO.. You win a race 30k you pay 1800 to the jock and then you pay 1800 to trainer. Jock only earns when he cashes(commission) trainer has his day rate.. I realize that nobody gets rich on 2000-3000 a month to take care of a horse but it certainly has some salary built in..

[Honu]

In England no matter the purse structure or the race meet losing jock mount is 100 pounds . Chuck how do you figure jocks have gotten a raise on winning mount fee's ? its 10% , the same as it always has been. In Canada at Woodbine there is additional 1% taken out of the winning purse for the gallop rider of every winning horse , lol be glad you dont race there.

[GBBob]

[quote=Honu]In England no matter the purse structure or the race meet losing jock mount is 100 pounds . Chuck how do you figure jocks have gotten a raise on winning mount fee's ? its 10% , the same as it always has been. In Canada at Woodbine there is additional 1% taken out of the winning purse for the gallop rider of every winning horse , lol be glad you dont race there.[/QUOTE]

We will be next year..nice to know the pie gets sliced thinner

[freddymo]

[quote=GBBob]

Originally Posted by Honu

In England no matter the purse structure or the race meet losing jock mount is 100 pounds . Chuck how do you figure jocks have gotten a raise on winning mount fee's ? its 10% , the same as it always has been. In Canada at Woodbine there is additional 1% taken out of the winning purse for the gallop rider of every winning horse , lol be glad you dont race there.[/QUOTE]

We will be next year..nice to know the pie gets sliced thinner

You win at WB its a nice payday.. What is the ave purse 65k?

Groom 1pt Jock trainers 20pts race day 75bucks a couple more chops and it becomes a bill instead of a check

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Respectfully giving your trainer 10% of the winning purse vs. 10% of your net is bit off the mark as well IMO.. You win a race 30k you pay 1800 to the jock and then you pay 1800 to trainer. Jock only earns when he cashes(commission) trainer has his day rate.. I realize that nobody gets rich on 2000-3000 a month to take care of a horse but it certainly has some salary built in..

Paying 10% of gross is better than paying higher day rates in 99% of cases. Pick your poison.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Honu

In England no matter the purse structure or the race meet losing jock mount is 100 pounds . Chuck how do you figure jocks have gotten a raise on winning mount fee's ? its 10% , the same as it always has been. In Canada at Woodbine there is additional 1% taken out of the winning purse for the gallop rider of every winning horse , lol be glad you dont race there.

Uh when the purses contractually negotiated by the horseman go up?

[Cannon Shell]

[quote=GBBob]

Originally Posted by Honu

In England no matter the purse structure or the race meet losing jock mount is 100 pounds . Chuck how do you figure jocks have gotten a raise on winning mount fee's ? its 10% , the same as it always has been. In Canada at Woodbine there is additional 1% taken out of the winning purse for the gallop rider of every winning horse , lol be glad you dont race there.[/QUOTE]

We will be next year..nice to know the pie gets sliced thinner

I knew there was a reason why Tom wanted to learn to ride and is slimming down...

[Honu]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I knew there was a reason why Tom wanted to learn to ride and is slimming down...

LOL , we could make 3 jocks outta him !!!!! Ill hustle their books.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Respectfully giving your trainer 10% of the winning purse vs. 10% of your net is bit off the mark as well IMO.. You win a race 30k you pay 1800 to the jock and then you pay 1800 to trainer. Jock only earns when he cashes(commission) trainer has his day rate.. I realize that nobody gets rich on 2000-3000 a month to take care of a horse but it certainly has some salary built in..

well no **** trainers get some salary built in... I mean who takes care of the horse, boards it, feeds it and trains it every day?

Who shows up once a month to ride it and maybe work it once and awhile?

You were reaching there buddy!

[Honu]

[quote=freddymo]

Originally Posted by GBBob

You win at WB its a nice payday.. What is the ave purse 65k?

Groom 1pt Jock trainers 20pts race day 75bucks a couple more chops and it becomes a bill instead of a check

Groom gets 1% too from the book keeper? Wow , nice place to be a back stretch worker. Really most bigger time trainers charge 12 or 13 % anyway to cover the 1% they say they give the groom the rider and the asst.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Honu

In England no matter the purse structure or the race meet losing jock mount is 100 pounds . Chuck how do you figure jocks have gotten a raise on winning mount fee's ? its 10% , the same as it always has been. In Canada at Woodbine there is additional 1% taken out of the winning purse for the gallop rider of every winning horse , lol be glad you dont race there.

Honestly I think 1% of all purses should be taken out and used to fund insurance for the jockeys.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

well no **** trainers get some salary built in... I mean who takes care of the horse, boards it, feeds it and trains it every day?

Who shows up once a month to ride it and maybe work it once and awhile?

You were reaching there buddy!

Actually , at small time race tracks most jockeys work pretty hard in the mornings and they dont get paid for it . When I was doing my best the least amount of horses that I got on in the mornings was maybe 8 but my usual morning was galloping or working 10 or more horses everyday but Monday. I tried to give myself at least one day off a week.
Now at big time tracks like Santa Anita , Churchhill and Belmont the jocks dont work that hard some dont come out hardly at all in the mornings but I guess in a sense they have earned it because they are aat the big tracks.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Honestly I think 1% of all purses should be taken out and used to fund insurance for the jockeys.

Spending other peoples money on a welfare program, naively sticking up for Obama based on what he "says"...are you becoming a liberal or has Riot rubbed off on you?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Honu

Actually , at small time race tracks most jockeys work pretty hard in the mornings and they dont get paid for it . When I was doing my best the least amount of horses that I got on in the mornings was maybe 8 but my usual morning was galloping or working 10 or more horses everyday but Monday. I tried to give myself at least one day off a week.
Now at big time tracks like Santa Anita , Churchhill and Belmont the jocks dont work that hard some dont come out hardly at all in the mornings but I guess in a sense they have earned it because they are aat the big tracks.

If a jock works a horse they should get paid just as a rider would in the AM.. isnt there a fee per horse thing?

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Honestly I think 1% of all purses should be taken out and used to fund insurance for the jockeys.

In a sense at least here in California the trainers figure their Workmans Comp into their day rate , it used to be really really high out here but thru the years the horseman have taken steps to get it lowered and has come down alot.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

If a jock works a horse they should get paid just as a rider would in the AM.. isnt there a fee per horse thing?

Yes , freelance gallop people here in Cali get 15 dollars a horse , Im salary so I ride no more than about 7 a day but I also help around the barn. My wage is broken down into a hourly rate and the reason for this is its the law.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Spending other peoples money on a welfare program, naively sticking up for Obama based on what he "says"...are you becoming a liberal or has Riot rubbed off on you?

These guys put their life on the line every time the get on the back of a tbred. AND the track / owners / trainers are basically the "employer" of the jockey.. (I know, I know, they are self employed). I find that to be a different situation than not working and asking for free insurance.

And I gotta give credit when credit is due, cause we all know we are quick to criticize when he does something we dont like.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Honu

In a sense at least here in California the trainers figure their Workmans Comp into their day rate , it used to be really really high out here but thru the years the horseman have taken steps to get it lowered and has come down alot.

are the jockeys who are riding in the afternoon part of the respective trainers workmans comp?