Einstein fee set at $7500

[GenuineRisk]

From Bloodhorse

Too much? Too little? Just right?

[randallscott35]

Just right.

[freddymo]

He will have to earn his place in Stallion history.. Stronach will toss him a fair amount of prospect mares..I guess...Was a nice horse I hope he makes it and the industry starts to reward such types.. Unfortunately he wasn't flashy and flashy(speed) is much easy to pitch then just solid horses that come to track with their lunch pale and give it their all..

[Gate Dancer]

I'd roll the dice for $7500................I think the female side of his pedigree might be stronger but he should be able to pass on some versatility and soundness to his offspring.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Gate Dancer

I'd roll the dice for $7500................I think the female side of his pedigree might be stronger ...

Stronger than what? His dam is a classic-winning multiple G1 winner, two of whose daughters have already foaled group winners (1 G1, 2 G2). His damsire is one of the all-time great stallions in Brazil, especially as a damsire, and his second dam won the Brazilian Oaks. And HER sire was another top Brazilian sire and damsire. The third dam was British and had already had a group SW in England before being exported to Brazil. This is a branch the outstanding Horama family, responsible for scads of group winners all over the world. These are seriously good bloodlines.

Plus he has no Raise a Native or Bold Ruler, only one remote Northern Dancer. Can you say 'outcross?' Especially for the mares who have A. P. Indy piled onto Storm Cat onto Mr. Prospector.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Stronger than what? His dam is a classic-winning multiple G1 winner, two of whose daughters have already foaled group winners (1 G1, 2 G2). His damsire is one of the all-time great stallions in Brazil, especially as a damsire, and his second dam won the Brazilian Oaks. And HER sire was another top Brazilian sire and damsire. The third dam was British and had already had a group SW in England before being exported to Brazil. This is a branch the outstanding Horama family, responsible for scads of group winners all over the world. These are seriously good bloodlines.

Plus he has no Raise a Native or Bold Ruler, only one remote Northern Dancer. Can you say 'outcross?' Especially for the mares who have A. P. Indy piled onto Storm Cat onto Mr. Prospector.

Ann how do you think a a major circuit successful grass mare would fare in a Brazilian Graded race?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

From Bloodhorse

Too much? Too little? Just right?

Wow. Just right, and a bit of a bargain?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ann how do you think a a major circuit successful grass mare would fare in a Brazilian Graded race?

No graded races in Brazil, only group races and if you don't know the difference, well, not my problem. In answer to your question, it would all depend on how well they acclimatized and whether they could sustain a bid down a stretch a full 4 furlongs long. They wouldn't run in the Guineas or Oaks races because they would be 6 months younger than the locals (that opposite seasons thing messes things up - Einy is officially 8 up here, but won't be 8 in his homeland until 1 July; his actual birthday is in October). Oaks winner Riboletta, top 2yo Verruma, and Filly Triple Crown winner Virginie ran pretty well in the US after importation, despite the difficulties of adjusting to new conditions. Just like us, their classics are sometimes won by less than world-beating types (Lemons Forever?), but don't think that because the purses are lower than ours that the horses are necessarily of lower quality. Invasor ran in Uruguay, for goodness sake, and that country's racing is generally inferior to both Brazil and Argentina.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

No graded races in Brazil, only group races and if you don't know the difference, well, not my problem. In answer to your question, it would all depend on how well they acclimatized and whether they could sustain a bid down a stretch a full 4 furlongs long. They wouldn't run in the Guineas or Oaks races because they would be 6 months younger than the locals (that opposite seasons thing messes things up - Einy is officially 8 up here, but won't be 8 in his homeland until 1 July; his actual birthday is in October). Oaks winner Riboletta, top 2yo Verruma, and Filly Triple Crown winner Virginie ran pretty well in the US after importation, despite the difficulties of adjusting to new conditions. Just like us, their classics are sometimes won by less than world-beating types (Lemons Forever?), but don't think that because the purses are lower than ours that the horses are necessarily of lower quality. Invasor ran in Uruguay, for goodness sake, and that country's racing is generally inferior to both Brazil and Argentina.

They are substantial inferior..and to quote you if you don't know the difference, well, not my problem

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by freddymo

They are substantial inferior..and to quote you if you don't know the difference, well, not my problem

Imprecise post. What are inferior, the races or the horses? Do you have any data to back up your opinion? Do you even follow Brazilian racing? Brazilian imports in the US labor under the burden of the inversion of their seasonal cycles (and horses are more physically attuned to the seasons than humans are) and tracks with short stretches; it is a tribute to them that many are able to reproduce their best form in the US despite these challenges.

[AeWingnut]

Einstein did well on all surfaces and if there is more money in racing than breeding he may produce horses that actually race past 3 & 4.

but I would have thought that Silver Charm would have thrown some decent horses with Buckpasser etc.. but no

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Imprecise post. What are inferior, the races or the horses? Do you have any data to back up your opinion? Do you even follow Brazilian racing? Brazilian imports in the US labor under the burden of the inversion of their seasonal cycles (and horses are more physically attuned to the seasons than humans are) and tracks with short stretches; it is a tribute to them that many are able to reproduce their best form in the US despite these challenges.

Ann get a grip and please feel free to think that Group 1 Brazilian based talent could be remotely competitive in 85% of US Graded 1/2 stakes.. You have seen a HANDFUL of SA based horses to come to the US and be successful.. And Yes I am well aware of Paseana, Bayoka, Invasor, and the other half a dozen or so animals that came her and succeeded.. they just don't have the stock in Brazil...and again if you don't know this it isnt my problem!

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

Einstein did well on all surfaces and if there is more money in racing than breeding he may produce horses that actually race past 3 & 4.

but I would have thought that Silver Charm would have thrown some decent horses with Buckpasser etc.. but no

I was thinking he might be very appealing to the breed-to-race person. Interesting you brought up Buckpasser, though- I found an article from June of 2009 about Spend a Buck and how the Buckpasser line hasn't done well with US mares:

Ingenious nick for Spend a Buck

Tree Fiddy

[Gate Dancer]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Stronger than what? His dam is a classic-winning multiple G1 winner, two of whose daughters have already foaled group winners (1 G1, 2 G2). His damsire is one of the all-time great stallions in Brazil, especially as a damsire, and his second dam won the Brazilian Oaks. And HER sire was another top Brazilian sire and damsire. The third dam was British and had already had a group SW in England before being exported to Brazil. This is a branch the outstanding Horama family, responsible for scads of group winners all over the world. These are seriously good bloodlines.

Plus he has no Raise a Native or Bold Ruler, only one remote Northern Dancer. Can you say 'outcross?' Especially for the mares who have A. P. Indy piled onto Storm Cat onto Mr. Prospector.

I think I'm agreeing with you...............stronger than his sire side was all I was implying.