CBO report on the stimulus

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

see, bipartisanship in action. it's fantastic. after all, he certainly is showing that altho he recognizes there should be compromise, there is certainly none necessary in this particular case from him or his party. he knows this because he's so smart. i mean, some people, less intelligent, might think that he would better produce compromise if he actually showed some willingness to give on some points, in order to achieve others, but he knows better.

You make a good victim!

Check out the GOP one page "health plan" - nine out of ten things they want are in the House or Senate bills. The GOP sorta ignores that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

You make a good victim!

Check out the GOP one page "health plan" - nine out of ten things they want are in the House or Senate bills. The GOP sorta ignores that.

who, me? i don't consider myself a victim at all. but i don't need to read anything the gop says. it's all obviously baloney.


now, this sounds like someone who feels like a victim:

Originally Posted by Riot

Too bad you cons here can't talk politics without the personal digs.

not quite sure what digs you see...but then, i'm not a con, so it doesn't involve me anyway.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Give me a public option Make health insurance affordable for the 40 million uninsured so we can stop paying for them. Make laws so insurance companies cannot arbitrarily screw their contract holders.


Or give me a margarita. That would cheer me up

Impossible. The best health care in the world is expensive. It would be like Ferrari being demanded to make their vehicles 'affordable' I know you've posted various UN ratings etc. but the clearest indication that we are the best is the fact world leaders including the recent visit by Canada's Premier (for a minor heart proceedure) come here for their health care.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Impossible. The best health care in the world is expensive. It would be like Ferrari being demanded to make their vehicles 'affordable' I know you've posted various UN ratings etc. but the clearest indication that we are the best is the fact world leaders including the recent visit by Canada's Premier (for a minor heart proceedure) come here for their health care.

Plenty of older Americans have go to Mexico and Canada to buy affordable drugs, drugs they need to live. Too expensive in the US, even with insurance, Medicare. Plenty of Americans have go to Mexico to afford operations they need.

Is your position truly, if you can't afford the Ferrari, there should be no Jeep or Kia for you to choose from here? Healthcare only for the wealthy? That excellent healthcare isn't a humane right, something we are proud of for all our citizens, in this first world country? The "most powerful" first world country on earth?

What if you have plenty of money, but you can't get insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Should the average hospitalization cost for some accidents of $30,000-$50,000 make you lose your house and all your retirement savings?

What's the figures? Half of bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills, of people that are insured?

We do not have the Ferrari of health care in the world. We are ranked, yes, 39th. Our babies die. Our old people die. We are unhealthy, expensively unhealthy, cradle to grave.

We do have the most expensive healthcare in the world, yes. But we don't get as much for our dollar as 38 other countries do .

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Give me a public option Make health insurance affordable for the 40 million uninsured so we can stop paying for them. Make laws so insurance companies cannot arbitrarily screw their contract holders.

I especially don't like seeing sick children not receive care and die because Wellpoint-Anthem-Blue Cross wants to raise their profit margin from 4% to 7% in 2010, so dumps thousands of their single plan holders in California, and raises rates double digits in multiple states.

Or give me a margarita. That would cheer me up

Finally a great idea from Riot!! Congrats!

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Plenty of older Americans have go to Mexico and Canada to buy affordable drugs, drugs they need to live. Too expensive in the US, even with insurance, Medicare. Plenty of Americans have go to Mexico to afford operations they need..

People also go there for cheap body work and paint jobs for cars not to mention dental work.

Originally Posted by Riot

Is your position truly, if you can't afford the Ferrari, there should be no Jeep or Kia for you to choose from here? Healthcare only for the wealthy? That excellent healthcare isn't a humane right, something we are proud of for all our citizens, in this first world country? The "most powerful" first world country on earth?.

Excellent Healthcare isn't a humane right and neither is excellent housing. There is a thing called catostrophic health insurance and with a 5K deductable is very affordable. Of course those who don't work can't afford a gum ball so its not available to EVERYONE.

Originally Posted by Riot

What if you have plenty of money, but you can't get insurance due to pre-existing conditions. Should the average hospitalization cost for some accidents of $30,000-$50,000 make you lose your house and all your retirement savings?.

I don't follow you. Plenty of money and you can't afford 30-50K? Huh?

Originally Posted by Riot

We do not have the Ferrari of health care in the world. We are ranked, yes, 39th. Our babies die. Our old people die. We are unhealthy, expensively unhealthy, cradle to grave..

The ranking is BS. We rank above Canada, at least in their Premier's eyes. Ever visit anyone at Mayo or Johns Hopkins. They are filled w/patients from other countries many of whom have coverage under their socialized programs.

Originally Posted by Riot

We do have the most expensive healthcare in the world, yes. But we don't get as much for our dollar as 38 other countries do .

And some would argue you get more for your dollar buying Kia rather than a Ferrari yet you won't find anyone willing to trade down.

[Riot]

T

here is a thing called catostrophic health insurance and with a 5K deductable is very affordable. Of course those who don't work can't afford a gum ball so its not available to EVERYONE.

Answer this, Dell. Do you have health insurance? Yes or no.

If so, do you pay for it, or is it part of your salary from an employer?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

T

Answer this, Dell. Do you have health insurance? Yes or no.

If so, do you pay for it, or is it part of your salary from an employer?

I have insurance and pay it out of pocket. $239/month. I work for Satan's Twin. lol

[dellinger63]

I also have broken two fingers and have splinted them myself w/ a good ole popsicle stick.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I have insurance and pay it out of pocket. $239/month. I work for Satan's Twin. lol

Do you have an individual policy, or is your insurance through work?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Do you have an individual policy, or is your insurance through work?

all me with a 5K deductable so I have never actually filed a claim. I've also had a heart scan (clear) that I paid as my insurance doesn't cover it. My point is I have made fitness a part of my life. To ask me to subsidize the health care of say the obese McDonald's workers outside catching a smoke break as I jog or bike by is crazy IMO

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

all me with a 5K deductable so I have never actually filed a claim. I've also had a heart scan (clear) that I paid as my insurance doesn't cover it. My point is I have made fitness a part of my life. To ask me to subsidize the health care of say the McDonald's workers outside catching a smoke break as I jog or bike by is crazy IMO

You are currently doing that. It's included in the costs of the healthcare system.

What about people who are not as healthy as you? Do you feel they should be able to purchase insurance too, or not?

How will you feel, in the future, if you go to a doctor for chest pain or heart palpatations, a cardiac problem is found, and your insurance company says, "Sorry. Your medical records show you had a heart scan before 2010. That makes cardiac-associated health problems a pre-existing condition, thus they will not be covered"

Edit: Dell, do you really think that the only people without insurance are not self-responsible for their own health, or are unemployed?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You are currently doing that. It's included in the costs of the healthcare system.

What about people who are not as healthy as you? Do you feel they should be able to purchase insurance too, or not?

How will you feel, in the future, if you go to a doctor for chest pain or heart palpatations, a cardiac problem is found, and your insurance company says, "Sorry. Your medical records show you had a heart scan before 2010. That makes cardiac-associated health problems a pre-existing condition, thus they will not be covered"

you don't get it do you? The test was clear and because so I got a break (so they told me tho I don't know how much and suspect it may be just another selling point they used) similar to a safe driver.

I'm all for saving people's lives ie heart attacks but not willing to pay for non-life threatening injuries such as broken bones, pulled muscles, flu etc etc. Life's not fair. Deal with it and instead of feeding them cake let them limp.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

you don't get it do you? The test was clear and because so I got a break (so they told me tho I don't know how much and suspect it may be just another selling point they used) similar to a safe driver.

I'm all for saving people's lives ie heart attacks but not willing to pay for non-life threatening injuries such as broken bones, pulled muscles, flu etc etc. Life's not fair. Deal with it and instead of feeding them cake let them limp.

Not everyone without insurance is poor, or lazy, or fat. Many are good, hardworking people, who do the right thing, and pay their way for healthcare. And sell their house to pay their way. Until they are rendered beyond broke by healthcare costs, and can't pay any more.

Healthcare in the US is ridiculously expensive (the entire system), it's getting worse, quite acutely, people are suffering, and that is NOT what the United States of America should allow IMO.

You seem to have the attitude of "every man for himself. But I'll throw you a life preserver if you fall overboard".

I can't agree with it. I want to prevent them falling overboard in the first place, and if they do, I think they deserve a boat to pick them out of the water, not just a life preserver to hang on to.

And, if your heart scan had showed a little arrythmia (because you're a runner) you'd be just as healthy as you are today, but you wouldn't have that insurance at that cost.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

you don't get it do you? The test was clear and because so I got a break (so they told me tho I don't know how much and suspect it may be just another selling point they used) similar to a safe driver.

I'm all for saving people's lives ie heart attacks but not willing to pay for non-life threatening injuries such as broken bones, pulled muscles, flu etc etc. Life's not fair. Deal with it and instead of feeding them cake let them limp.

That's ridiculous

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not everyone without insurance is poor, or lazy, or fat. Many are good, hardworking people, who do the right thing, and pay their way for healthcare. And sell their house to pay their way. Until they are rendered beyond broke by healthcare costs, and can't pay any more.

Healthcare in the US is ridiculously expensive (the entire system), it's getting worse, quite acutely, people are suffering, and that is NOT what the United States of America should allow IMO.

You seem to have the attitude of "every man for himself. But I'll throw you a life preserver if you fall overboard".

I can't agree with it. I want to prevent them falling overboard in the first place, and if they do, I think they deserve a boat to pick them out of the water, not just a life preserver to hang on to.
And, if your heart scan had showed a little arrythmia (because you're a runner) you'd be just as healthy as you are today, but you wouldn't have that insurance at that cost.

If they are drunk, acting stupid, hanging over the side of the boat who's fault is it when they go into the water? We are an obese nation and it's mainly caused by over eating and bad diet choices not glandular as the obese would like to have you believe. I have no problem w/you or anyone else subsidizing insurance but give me the option to opt out. I'm tired and have paid enough taxes including for public schools though I've never attended one and have no children. It would be nice to have the kids/welfare recipients mow my lawn and shovel the driveway but that's just a dream and would be too fair

[dellinger63]

and if we were REALLY concerned with healthcare cigs would be illegal not just taxed! Just as if we were REALLY concerned with jobs and education illegals would be gone! But NO both sides want their legal amigo's votes.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

If they are drunk, acting stupid who's fault is it when they go into the water? We are an obese nation and it's mainly caused by over eating and bad diet choices not glandular as the obese would like to have you believe. I have no problem w/you or anyone else subsidizing insurance but give me the option to opt out. I'm tired and have paid enough taxes including for public schools though I've never attended one and have no children. It would be nice to have the kids/welfare recipients mow my lawn and shovel the driveway but that's just a dream and would be too fair

posting on derby trail...

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

and if we were REALLY concerned with healthcare cigs would be illegal not just taxed! Just as if we were REALLY concerned with jobs and education illegals would be gone! But NO both sides want their legal amigos votes.

Steve..it's YOU right wingers...don't tell me about neo-cons who fight seat belt laws, helmet laws, gun laws..you know..stuf that stops people from getting hurt. You want all this freedom of everything, then suck it up and pay for that right.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

If they are drunk, acting stupid, hanging over the side of the boat who's fault is it when they go into the water?

What if it's a little 12-year-old girl walking the deck, and the boat rolls, throwing her over the side with leukemia?

We do chemotherapy only if she's poor? Add the bone marrow transplant if her parents have a house to sell to raise the dough (they are now homeless as a family but hey, the healthcare is paid for), or throw out all the stops if she happens to come from a family with few financial concerns?

You want to be on that death panel?