Mullins and O'Neill Suspended

[randallscott35]

I don't believe it.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/112551.html

[Danzig]

i am shocked, stunned! would never have guessed this could happen.

[Nascar1966]

Mullins in trouble again. Geez what a suprise that would be.

[philcski]

Mullins is a juicer?

I had no idea.

[Scav]

Comedy that Illinois busted O'Neil.

The overage is 1.9% over the normal rate. TGJB has mentioned what the normal CO2 level is in a horse, gonna try and dig that up on their board.

Illinois has SUPER TESTING this year, every race. Should be AWFUL interesting if it does a bit of good.

[ateamstupid]

Additional generic feigned shock zinger.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Scav

Comedy that Illinois busted O'Neil.

The overage is 1.9% over the normal rate. TGJB has mentioned what the normal CO2 level is in a horse, gonna try and dig that up on their board.

Illinois has SUPER TESTING this year, every race. Should be AWFUL interesting if it does a bit of good.

Normal in humans is 24-29 mm/dL

I am somewhat surprised how high the "accepted" normal is for a horse. I wonder what percentage of their horses that are not in violation test in the higher normal range or 35-36 mm/dL. Must be a lab error

[Stall Mucker]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I don't believe it.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/112551.html

not supprised about Mullins. O'Neill is another story. Stuff happens.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Stall Mucker

not supprised about Mullins. O'Neill is another story. Stuff happens.

Lol thats really funny , O'Neill is jus as sneaky , snakey as the next guy who tries to beat the system where have you been?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Scav

Comedy that Illinois busted O'Neil.

The overage is 1.9% over the normal rate. TGJB has mentioned what the normal CO2 level is in a horse, gonna try and dig that up on their board.

Illinois has SUPER TESTING this year, every race. Should be AWFUL interesting if it does a bit of good.

It varies, usually between 34 to 36 mmol/L, and many things can and do cause variance on a daily basis: feed being eaten, humidity of the air, Lasix use, when the horse is sampled in the cooling out process, etc.

The overage amounts are set high enough so that there really is only one reason - illegal supplementation - that they are high.

However - "normal" levels are established along a bell-shaped curve, and yes, it is entirely possible for a small, small percentage of animals to be high normally. That is easy proven by retesting the animal.

It is also possible that slightly sloppy testing procedures and handling of the samples causes erroneous results. Attention to detail and strict procedures eliminates lab errors.

Unfortunately, some believe that TCO2 levels should be published, because some believe that if a TCO2 level in one horse is higher than the TCO2 level in another horse - although those levels are within the normal physiologic variences established by laboratories (we do test TCO2 in some ill animals, too) - that can indicate "help" that isn't high enough to be outside the allowable levels. That is a dangerous and wrong thing to do, IMO.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Normal in humans is 24-29 mm/dL

I am somewhat surprised how high the "accepted" normal is for a horse. I wonder what percentage of their horses that are not in violation test in the higher normal range or 35-36 mm/dL. Must be a lab error

Horses are not humans, Doc Species can be vastly different physiologically. Remember horse spleens versus human spleens? In fact (mostly because they are herbivores) horses have a narrower "normal" range than what you have quoted for humans, above.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Riot

Horses are not humans, Doc Species can be vastly different physiologically. Remember horse spleens versus human spleens? In fact (mostly because they are herbivores) horses have a narrower "normal" range than what you have quoted for humans, above.

I really was ASKING not assuming anything. Probably should have just said what do the vets think the normal range is for a noncompeting horse.

In humans this is tied into kidney compensation and I have no knowledge as to whether a horse has kidney compensation for high and low bicarbs or alkalemic Ph's like people do but there are vets here that will know

[Scav]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Normal in humans is 24-29 mm/dL

I am somewhat surprised how high the "accepted" normal is for a horse. I wonder what percentage of their horses that are not in violation test in the higher normal range or 35-36 mm/dL. Must be a lab error

Doc,

There is a DTer here that told me to 'milkshake' myself to get rid of a cold, milkshake myself every hour he says.

I didn't do it, I went to the doctor, gave me a 'z pack' and I am all good now.

Milkshaking a human gets rid of a cold, True or False??

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Scav

Doc,

There is a DTer here that told me to 'milkshake' myself to get rid of a cold, milkshake myself every hour he says.

I didn't do it, I went to the doctor, gave me a 'z pack' and I am all good now.

Milkshaking a human gets rid of a cold, True or False??

I have never been taught this....

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Honu

Lol thats really funny , O'Neill is jus as sneaky , snakey as the next guy who tries to beat the system where have you been?

He's a fan of claiming off your barn, and alkalizing. Remember the one that he won THE 2009 Phoenix Gold Cup with at Turf P? Peace Chant? Told you guys that I think he alkalized that horse that day. O'NEIL OWNED HIM BY HIMSELF. He didn't race for 7 months after that, and then showed up with W Phipps training him. He had a new owner. They couldn't get him to perform that way. Now, I see Oneil has him again, and he ran 5th or 6th down the hill in March. How much do you think O'NEIL made off all this? He can afford the fine. This is at least the 3rd time he's been caught alkalizing. How many times has he claimed off your barn in the last 14-15 months? You're like one of his favorite clean barns to claim off of.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by docicu3

I really was ASKING not assuming anything. Probably should have just said what do the vets think the normal range is for a noncompeting horse.

In humans this is tied into kidney compensation and I have no knowledge as to whether a horse has kidney compensation for high and low bicarbs or alkalemic Ph's like people do but there are vets here that will know

I am a vet, and the normal range for a noncompeting average horse has been well-established by most laboratories as 23-33 mmol/L variable by breed and fitness condition. We can't use values for non-competing, non-fit pasture horses when testing TB horses post-race. The values for racehorses (northern and southern hemisphere, STB vs TB) at rest and post-exercise have been established by specifically testing these athletes. Certainly in metabolic illness TCO2 can go up and down markedly dependent upon the acid-base status, and yes, the kidneys help compensate. As do the other usual mechanisms that maintain overall acid-base balance in any mammal.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Scav

Illinois has SUPER TESTING this year, every race. Should be AWFUL interesting if it does a bit of good.

Seriously? Every single race on the card? That's some bucks - but a good thing!

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Scav

Doc,

There is a DTer here that told me to 'milkshake' myself to get rid of a cold, milkshake myself every hour he says.

I didn't do it, I went to the doctor, gave me a 'z pack' and I am all good now.

Milkshaking a human gets rid of a cold, True or False??

*Sigh* This is now stuck in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGL2rytTraA

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

*Sigh* This is now stuck in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGL2rytTraA

Learn something new everyday!! But I'd have to....

Steve should weave this into ATR.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Scav

Doc,

There is a DTer here that told me to 'milkshake' myself to get rid of a cold, milkshake myself every hour he says.

I didn't do it, I went to the doctor, gave me a 'z pack' and I am all good now.

Milkshaking a human gets rid of a cold, True or False??

A "z pack" won't do anything for a cold. A "z pack" is an antibiotic. Antibiotics only work on bacterial infections. A cold is not a bacterial infection. A cold is a virus.

"Z packs" work well on bacterial sinus infections and bacterial throat infections such as strep and staph.