Muslims have gone too far

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Riot

Why continue to ignore that nearly every homegrown US terrorist over the past 25 years has killed us (fellow citizens) in the name of Christ?

Yeah, those American citizen Christians have to speak out, they are all terrorists in the name of their God until proven otherwise.

You mean Southern Baptists like Nidal Malik Hasan, who killed 12 soldiers and 1 civilian at Fort Hood. Or how about D.C. sniper John Allen Muhammad. Or maybe Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, who shot two privates at an Army recruiting office in Little Rock in 2009.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

You mean Southern Baptists like Nidal Malik Hasan, who killed 12 soldiers and 1 civilian at Fort Hood. Or how about D.C. sniper John Allen Muhammad. Or maybe Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, who shot two privates at an Army recruiting office in Little Rock in 2009.

in her opinion this is bigoted.

[Rupert Pupkin]

[quote=Riot;651142]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The bottom line is some lump all "Muslims" together as a religious cult of terrorists to hate and fear, and some don't.

I don't think anyone said anything about "all Muslims" being bad or anything like that. Plenty of Muslims are very good people.

But to try to act like it's only a tiny percentage of Muslims that admired Bin Laden would be false.

And I don't think you could possibly support the way women are treated in many Muslim countries.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

You mean Southern Baptists like Nidal Malik Hasan, who killed 12 soldiers and 1 civilian at Fort Hood. Or how about D.C. sniper John Allen Muhammad. Or maybe Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, who shot two privates at an Army recruiting office in Little Rock in 2009.

Nice try. No, I mean Christians like Eric Rudolf, Tim McVey, Scott Roeder.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

in her opinion this is bigoted.

Wrong, but don't let that stop you from just making crap up

[Riot]

I don't think anyone said anything about "all Muslims" being bad or anything like that.

"Muslims have gone too far".

Plenty of Muslims are very good people.

Nice to hear you state the obvious.

But to try to act like it's only a tiny percentage of Muslims that admired Bin Laden would be false.

We'll just have to disagree completely on that one.

And I don't think you could possibly support the way women are treated in many Muslim countries

No, I have no desire to go to Saudi. However, that has nothing to do with foreign terrorism threats to this country. I also don't support the way Muslims are treated by some Americans in this country.

I think the American soldier in that video should be punished for how he treated those children. You?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

So you agree with Miraja2 that Bush was a "murderous thug"?

If you'll read my post again, I believe you'll notice that I didn't call Bush a "murderous thug." I reserved that language only for Bin Laden.
The comparison I made between the two was simply one of individuals who gave orders that directly led to the deaths of thousands of people but retained relatively high approval ratings in certain parts of the world. The two men clearly and indisputably share those traits but, as you point out, they differ on many others.
Obviously the supporters of each man continue to believe that the motivations of their guy are/were noble while the other's are/were just plain evil. Personally I happen to believe the motivations of both individuals were pretty evil, and I find the worldview of them both to be absolutely disgusting. Does that mean I think they were the "same?" No. I'm not sure there is much merit in ranking which individual's (or group's) ideology is more evil/harmful/revolting etc. than another's ideology. However, were I to engage in such an exercise, then yes, I would rank Bin Laden and Al Queda as being worse than the Bush administration....which is saying a lot.

[letswastemoney]

Well I was directing my thread towards the Muslims who want to censor the drawings of Muhammad.

But I suppose I could have worded the title better.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

"Muslims have gone too far".



Nice to hear you state the obvious.



We'll just have to disagree completely on that one.



No, I have no desire to go to Saudi. However, that has nothing to do with foreign terrorism threats to this country. I also don't support the way Muslims are treated by some Americans in this country.

I think the American soldier in that video should be punished for how he treated those children. You?

What do you mean you disagree? The polls showed that Bin Laden was quite popular in the Muslim world. It's not debatable. They did polls in several Muslim countries and Bin Laden was quite popular for a while. There's nothing to argue about. It's a fact.

With regard to your question about the American soldier and the children, I haven't seen the video, so I can't answer that.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by miraja2

If you'll read my post again, I believe you'll notice that I didn't call Bush a "murderous thug." I reserved that language only for Bin Laden.
The comparison I made between the two was simply one of individuals who gave orders that directly led to the deaths of thousands of people but retained relatively high approval ratings in certain parts of the world. The two men clearly and indisputably share those traits but, as you point out, they differ on many others.
Obviously the supporters of each man continue to believe that the motivations of their guy are/were noble while the other's are/were just plain evil. Personally I happen to believe the motivations of both individuals were pretty evil, and I find the worldview of them both to be absolutely disgusting. Does that mean I think they were the "same?" No. I'm not sure there is much merit in ranking which individual's (or group's) ideology is more evil/harmful/revolting etc. than another's ideology. However, were I to engage in such an exercise, then yes, I would rank Bin Laden and Al Queda as being worse than the Bush administration....which is saying a lot.

Fair enough. I misunderstood you. I'm glad that you don't think Bush is a "murderous thug".

If Bush's wars were so evil, then isn't Obama just as bad as Bush? Obama is continuing the wars.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

What do you mean you disagree? The polls showed that Bin Laden was quite popular in the Muslim world. It's not debatable. They did polls in several Muslim countries and Bin Laden was quite popular for a while. There's nothing to argue about. It's a fact.

With regard to your question about the American soldier and the children, I haven't seen the video, so I can't answer that.

Yes, "it's a fact" if one only considers those particular 2003 polls, ignoring all other published opinion expressed by various Muslim individuals, countries, organizations regarding bin Laden pre- and post- 9/11, within Saudi and elsewhere.

You should watch the video. Directly applicable to this thread.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Well I was directing my thread towards the Muslims who want to censor the drawings of Muhammad.

But I suppose I could have worded the title better.

I doubt that wording matters much, judging by the dearth of, "Hey, I don't think millions of Muslims can be lumped together and presumed to be religious terrorists" comments.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, "it's a fact" if one only considers those particular 2003 polls, ignoring all other published opinion expressed by various Muslim individuals, countries, organizations regarding bin Laden pre- and post- 9/11, within Saudi and elsewhere.

You should watch the video. Directly applicable to this thread.

There are plenty of Muslims that hate Bin Laden and there are plenty that love him. I'm not ignoring the Muslims that hate Bin Laden. I recognize that plenty of Muslims dislike him. I never stated otherwise.

I'll be happy to watch the video. Where is the link to it?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Fair enough. I misunderstood you. I'm glad that you don't think Bush is a "murderous thug".

If Bush's wars were so evil, then isn't Obama just as bad as Bush? Obama is continuing the wars.

Hmm...well I didn't say I didn't think it, I just said I didn't say it in that post.
As for the Obama administration, in Iraq they are gradually implementing a phased withdrawal. I give them some credit for that, although I am not sure their efforts there really differ greatly from how the Bush administration would be handling Iraq now were it still in power. However, I wouldn't say that gradually implementing a slow end to a completely unnecessary war is "just as bad" as starting a completely unnecessary war in the first place.
As far as Afghanistan, I think the Obama administration's decisions to ramp up U.S. efforts there are absolutely horrible. I have criticized the administration's actions there on numerous occasions, and hope that other liberals do the same. If we only criticize the Bush administration when they do crap like this and give the Obama administration a free ride, we are just as hypocritical as all the conservatives who suddenly started caring about the debt and deficit in January '09 after ignoring it for eight years.

[joeydb]

It's all fun and games until somebody gets their head cut off...

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by miraja2

As for the Obama administration, in Iraq they are gradually implementing a phased withdrawal. I give them some credit for that, although I am not sure their efforts there really differ greatly from how the Bush administration would be handling Iraq now were it still in power. However, I wouldn't say that gradually implementing a slow end to a completely unnecessary war is "just as bad" as starting a completely unnecessary war in the first place.
As far as Afghanistan, I think the Obama administration's decisions to ramp up U.S. efforts there are absolutely horrible.

This is the key. I'm not sure it's practical or responsible to come into office, drag every last troop out of two war zones, and say you did it just because you don't agree with the wars.

So the best thing to do is what's happening in Iraq, which is admittedly happening slower than I'd like. Not a fan of increasing presence in another war zone....not at all. But to say that somehow having to deal with the $hit sandwich someone dropped in your lap in a responsible way is equally as bad as creating it in the first place is a little bit of a dishonest way to approach it.

[Antitrust32]

Bush didnt create the war in Afghanistan. Al Queda did when they declared war on the USA with the 9-11 terror attacks.

Iraq is a different story, but I wanted to get that clarified.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Riot

There are plenty of loud and proud Muslims. Of course, it's difficult to be that in the USA, even for Muslim USA citizens, due to the blanket bigotry and hatred displayed here against them by their fellow citizens.

Oh, we are supposed to like people that belong to an organization that believes in killing (or heavily taxing) anyone who won't join their gang? Maybe these Pet Muslims you write about are acting nice, because they aren't in the majority. Put them in a Muslim Majority Country, and see the real them. Far as blanket stuff goes, haven't you noticed how these countries % of Muslims are in the hi 90's? That's what happens when a Prophet tells his followers to kill those who try to leave the religion. Any time they get a majority, they try to turn that in to a hi 90's % of the population. You say some of these Muslims are good, but they choose to follow the teachings of a Pedophile who told males to treat their women like farm animals. They follow a man who said 1 man's word is equal to that of 2 women. They choose to follow the teachings of a man that butchered non believers. I'm sorry, but I can't see how Muslims can be good people. You can't follow this person's teachings, and be a good person. I don't understand the huge free pass you give people that choose to follow a guy who fkd a girl that played with dolls. If he was here, he'd be put in prison for this, and this is the person you say good people can follow? I don't think so. I'm not getting this assumption you have that says "good people" can follow.... a butcher.....a pedophile......someone who calls for the killing of those leaving the "faith." It's obvious that you're ignoring core beliefs. To me, someone who follows this person's teachings is not "good people." These aren't people following some Latter Day Saint. Far as I know, Mormons aren't out to kill people that refuse to buy into their belief system. Islam has clear stated goals. If people say they belong to that belief system, then I have to accept the fact that (push come to shove) they are gunna be in support of the world domination ordered by their Prophet. Do you folks have a portion of your brain that won't allow you to fully accept the stated goals of this religion? I think so. I'm not going to harm these people, but I don't see any way that these can be "good people." Their goals are not good for non-Muslims. That light has got to (someday) go on.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Oh, we are supposed to like people that belong to an organization that believes in killing (or heavily taxing) anyone who won't join their gang?.

"We" don't all buy into your description. Some of "we" think your knowledge of Islam is colored only by information provided by hate sites. Some of "we" think some of the things you say about "Muslims" (as a whole) are absurdly, patently and simply wrong.

[Riot]

With regard to your question about the American soldier and the children, I haven't seen the video, so I can't answer that.

See the third page of this thread:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/i...iraqi-children