I need to listen to ATR more often

[geeker2]

I blame GBBob and SCAV for that crap at Arlington

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

If Byk is sitting on the left of you, and Davidowitz on the right, who do you listen to?

If it were me in that situation, I'd tell Byk to stop banning PG1985 and I'd tell Davidowitz that he needs to lay off the Zenyatta Kool Aid.

I'd then stand up and yell out to Rupert that yeah, PE didn't ship, but she was facing much much much much better competition in her career, and there was no reason to ship out of the area.

Back in the day, I used to rip on East coast trainers that would refuse to ship
west, but not with Personal Ensign, as I felt she wasn't beating up on a bunch of cream puffs.

Zenyatta feeds on cream puffs.

After the info I got yesterday on the Arlington thread, I would be looking for Brian S Spencer, heck I may even buy him a beer.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

Why would a trainer/owner want to run an eastern DIRT(the organic brown stuff) horse on tracks made out of rubber and a$$ lint? Zenyatta is great, in the BC she beat some 2nd string Euro turf horses and 1 or 2 actual DIRT(again, the organic brown stuff)horses. We all know what she has beaten in her other "glorified" allowance races so there is no need to try an argue that point anymore. There is no argument that she is not a very good horse with a decent career...but that is about all that it has been so far.

I wasn't talking about an east coast horse coing out west right now. I was talking about in past years when we used to have dirt.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar

Right, we should all be falling all over ourselves thanking the Mosses for bringing her back to beat Taptam and St Trinians. The racing world would certainly collapse into dust were we not given that privilege.

It's nice that she's still running and her stretch runs are exciting in themselves, but I'm sorry, her campaign is boring and it doesn't nearly live up to the hyperbole we're smothered with by her connections and fans.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Oh stop it. That "Grade I" BS is a misleading argument and you know it. She's running in restricted races in her backyard against the same dreck over and over and people like you cry about us not being satisfied with that. She's so goddamn great, she should be able to ship more than twice a year, she should be able to face boys more than once a year. Hell, make her a quarter horse for a race or two, just do something different for once. She's accomplishing nothing but extending a meaningless winning streak and we'll never know how good she truly was because they refuse to break new ground with her.

The "Grade I" thing is not misleading. Sure there are times when a certain division is weaker than at other times. But grade I races are the best races that there are. Those are the most prestigious races. You could argue the division is weak this year, but what about last year? What about the year before that? She's won 17 races in a row over the past 3 years. Was the division weak every year?

If you own a filly or mare and they win a grade I, their value as a broodmare skyrockets. Grade I races are the races that everyone wants to win. Nobody is holding back. The best fillies and mares are going to show up in the grade I's. Zenyatta can't run against better horses unless she takes on the boys, which she will do again in the BC Classic later this year.

I can't imagine the way you would have blasted Personal Ensign back in the 1980s for running her final race in the BC Dsitaff instead of the Classic.

[lemoncrush]

Zenyatta is a sensational story, and a great mare. My only problem with her connections is that they continue to cater to the California circuit by running her in the same races every year. Bringing her back this year, should have meant new challenges, not just another reason to have "Zenyatta bobblehead day" at hollywood park.

However, it's not her fault that california has synthetic tracks. Nor is it her fault that John Sherrifs doesn't have an operation like Assumussen or Pletcher where he can just easily send her to 10 different tracks in the country where they have stalls and assistants ready to take care of her.

But even the most ardent Zenyatta supporters have to be tired of watching her in these restricted races in California where the competition (usually) is subpar.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you are right. what will they say if she(zenyatta) wins the classic again at churchill? not good enough......thats where those idiots ruined rachel they ran her against the boys over and over. zenyatta showed up ready to race in april...the other horse had to lower to garbage just to get a win and could not even think about racing zenyatta when she was supposed to for 5 million. so whose ducking who here? i 90 % think rachel won't be in the classic this year. as it is right now she has not a prayer of placing in it. she most likely would of lost at belmont saturday if she were entered in the ogden phipps. but , as usual, instead of reality you get the bone heads turning it into an argument about one or the other. they are both good horses, one continues to win and impress....the other has questions about soundness and fitness. who cares about horses in the past and comparing....can i bet crap like that in a race???....i doubt it. why even argue with these clowns. if you can't tell which horse was mismanaged for yourself than you are an idiot and probably lose all the time anyway. theres so many moron comments on here that i read them and gain betting confidence by doing so. waste your time and energy arguing about things that don't mean a thing. if people can't see which horse is better by now they are living in delusion land....let them bet and lose their money like they do most of the time. besides you are arguing over horses that go off 2-5 in every race anyway.

how ridiculous. the only time i think rachel was mishandled is when they tried to rush her back off the shelf to suit jess jacksons ego. you can't put up a horse for months, let them get fat and lazy, and then get them revved right up because there's 5 mil on the line.

i still don't understand why the need is there to knock her in an attempt to elevate zenyatta. it's absolutely ridiculous. and i find it funny that you bash others for wasting their time with the argument of who's better, and then you give your opinion of who is obviously better. you're engaging in the very thing you're criticizing others for doing!!

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The "Grade I" thing is not misleading. Sure there are times when a certain division is weaker than at other times. But grade I races are the best races that there are. Those are the most prestigious races. You could argue the division is weak this year, but what about last year? What about the year before that? She's won 17 races in a row over the past 3 years. Was the division weak every year?

If you own a filly or mare and they win a grade I, their value as a broodmare skyrockets. Grade I races are the races that everyone wants to win. Nobody is holding back. The best fillies and mares are going to show up in the grade I's. Zenyatta can't run against better horses unless she takes on the boys, which she will do again in the BC Classic later this year.

I can't imagine the way you would have blasted Personal Ensign back in the 1980s for running her final race in the BC Dsitaff instead of the Classic.

I know what a Grade I is, thanks. The Grade I's she's winning are mostly Grade I's in name only.

Enough with the Personal Ensign comparisons. For some reason, Zenyatta fans can never just keep it about Zenyatta. PE was practically beating a different species of filly than Zenyatta is, and you know it. Once again, apples and oranges.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Right, we should all be falling all over ourselves thanking the Mosses for bringing her back to beat Taptam and St Trinians. The racing world would certainly collapse into dust were we not given that privilege.

It's nice that she's still running and her stretch runs are exciting in themselves, but I'm sorry, her campaign is boring and it doesn't nearly live up to the hyperbole we're smothered with by her connections and fans.

No, we shouldn't be thanking them for bringing her back to face Taptam. We should be thanking them for bringing her back this year to take on Rachel (which they tried to do). And we should thank them for bringing her back this year to defend her title in the BC Classic.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I can't imagine the way you would have blasted Personal Ensign back in the 1980s for running her final race in the BC Dsitaff instead of the Classic.

didnt the phipps already have a pretty potent entry in that classic?

So thank her for two races.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

How about we just shut the sport down completely? It's obvious cowardice is rewarded and praised.

[TouchOfGrey]

Oh dear.

Of all the times for Steve to be off the satellite airwaves! Good for him for saying what many of us are thinking.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

So thank her for two races.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

How about we just shut the sport down completely? It's obvious cowardice is rewarded and praised.

So even though they wanted to take on Rachel, they are cowards? Even though they want to run against the best colts in the country, they are cowards? They are cowards if they don't try to choose a really tough race every time?

Is it like that in boxing to? Should a boxer try to look for the toughest fight he can find every time? If he doesn't, is he a coward? That is absurd and you know it. You point for a big fight or a big race, but you don't want to have really tough ones all the way there. You want some of the preps to be relatively easy. There is nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

Oh dear.

Of all the times for Steve to be off the satellite airwaves! Good for him for saying what many of us are thinking.

You can tell a few of the dearly de-darted are still raging on the Paulick Report.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

didnt the phipps already have a pretty potent entry in that classic?

It was so long ago I don't remember. Who did they have in there?

By the way, I wasn't really knocking them for not running in there. I was just trying to make a point that it's very rare even for the great fillies to run in the Classic. I don't know why there is this double-standard when it comes to Zenyatta.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It was so long ago I don't remember. Who did they have in there?

By the way, I wasn't really knocking them for not running in there. I was just trying to make a point that it's very rare even for the great fillies to run in the Classic. I don't know why there is this double-standard when it comes to Zenyatta.

seeking the gold and personal flag.

i dont think its a double standard. older males the last few years have been lacking in quality. we've seen time and time again that the fillies can compete and defeat the males. im sure if zenyatta resided in new york and was beating the same competition there would be an equal outcry.

i think it is actually a giant compliment to zenyatta that people want her to run against males.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It was so long ago I don't remember. Who did they have in there?

By the way, I wasn't really knocking them for not running in there. I was just trying to make a point that it's very rare even for the great fillies to run in the Classic. I don't know why there is this double-standard when it comes to Zenyatta.

They had a horse named Seeking the Gold back then.

He was a pretty good sort.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar

i don't think too many are nitpicking...until someone says she's the best ever, or when someone says she should be/should have been horse of the year. that's the type of stuff that gets her accomplishments and schedule scrutinized, and deservedly so.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

i think it is actually a giant compliment to zenyatta that people want her to run against males.

You would think that that would be obvious to all the Zenyattards who seem to think that we are all Z haters.

Until you pointed that obvious fact out though, it never even occurred to me that they didn't 'get' this.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

seeking the gold and personal flag.

i dont think its a double standard. older males the last few years have been lacking in quality. we've seen time and time again that the fillies can compete and defeat the males. im sure if zenyatta resided in new york and was beating the same competition there would be an equal outcry.

i think it is actually a giant compliment to zenyatta that people want her to run against males.

you're right, it is!