Interesting Breeding Obs from Keeneland on Satuday

If you go through the stakes fields at Keeneland for Saturday you'll notice an unusual amount of horses who carry the Rasmuessen (sp?) Factor, the practice of inbreeding to outstanding females within 5 generations.

This is still, like most breeding, a theory. But I must admit, its one that has proven its mettle in my mind. I found it interesting that there are so many in this weekend.

Do you think more breeders are utilizing it more? Or is it more of a lack of genetic diversity that is leaving little choice but to cross the same lines over and over again?

Furthermore, it seems some of the cheaper (in price and quality of the breeding stock in the pedigree) stakes participants are carrying the RF and have obviously proven to be successful at a relatively top level. Might be a good thing to keep in mind for a small breeder.

I have no doubt that the RF adds class to a breeding and its proven that such things as the x-factor are female related in genetic passing. The old saying goes, the class of the horse comes from the female family... thoughts?

And on a sidenote, I know Coolmore has been desperately trying to groom a Danehill son to stand at stud in America. Their first real try was with the ill-fated Landseer. He was put down before being retired.

It seems their new Danehill hope is in Dylan Thomas. And although he's an obviously classy individual, as a breeder, I would think their best Danehill son from a stallion perspective is Aussie Rules. They already have him in the US and it should be interesting to see if he takes priority with a commanding victory and a lackluster dirt showing for Dylan Thomas. One can only hope...

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Balletto

If you go through the stakes fields at Keeneland for Saturday you'll notice an unusual amount of horses who carry the Rasmuessen (sp?) Factor, the practice of inbreeding to outstanding females within 5 generations.

This is still, like most breeding, a theory. But I must admit, its one that has proven its mettle in my mind. I found it interesting that there are so many in this weekend.

Do you think more breeders are utilizing it more? Or is it more of a lack of genetic diversity that is leaving little choice but to cross the same lines over and over again?

Furthermore, it seems some of the cheaper (in price and quality of the breeding stock in the pedigree) stakes participants are carrying the RF and have obviously proven to be successful at a relatively top level. Might be a good thing to keep in mind for a small breeder.

..

Rasmussen did not invent inbreeding to females, he just gave it a name. Using full or half-siblings for inbreeding has a very old pedigree <joke>. Boussac used it (check out Tourzima), the original Aga Khan used it (check out Gallant Man), US breeders of a half-century ago were putting together the full brothers Sir Gallahad III and Bull Dog with abandon. Go back to the 1800s - the damsire of Wise Counsellor, Russell (a SW and winner of 19 races), was by Eolus out a mare by Scathelock, these being half-brothers, both out of the mare Fanny Washington. If anything, old-time breeders inbred more closely than we consider acceptable today and that includes to females.

Take a look at George Pope's genetic masterpiece, his homebred Hillary, for an extreme example of inbreeding to superior females.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Rasmussen did not invent inbreeding to females, he just gave it a name. Using full or half-siblings for inbreeding has a very old pedigree <joke>. Boussac used it (check out Tourzima), the original Aga Khan used it (check out Gallant Man), US breeders of a half-century ago were putting together the full brothers Sir Gallahad III and Bull Dog with abandon. Go back to the 1800s - the damsire of Wise Counsellor, Russell (a SW and winner of 19 races), was by Eolus out a mare by Scathelock, these being half-brothers, both out of the mare Fanny Washington. If anything, old-time breeders inbred more closely than we consider acceptable today and that includes to females.

Take a look at George Pope's genetic masterpiece, his homebred Hillary, for an extreme example of inbreeding to superior females.

Am I the only one that doesn't like horses that are over inbred?

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Am I the only one that doesn't like horses that are over inbred?

Cajun,
I've inbred twice to the third gen. Both hold promise and are physically correct.
I just had to face the fact that T-breds are ALL inbred to a limited gene pool.
The best would be to out cross, but it's very hard to find no Native Dancers, Northern Dancers, Mr Prospectors, and so many others.
You "roll the dice" and hope for the best.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Rasmussen did not invent inbreeding to females, he just gave it a name. Using full or half-siblings for inbreeding has a very old pedigree <joke>. Boussac used it (check out Tourzima), the original Aga Khan used it (check out Gallant Man), US breeders of a half-century ago were putting together the full brothers Sir Gallahad III and Bull Dog with abandon. Go back to the 1800s - the damsire of Wise Counsellor, Russell (a SW and winner of 19 races), was by Eolus out a mare by Scathelock, these being half-brothers, both out of the mare Fanny Washington. If anything, old-time breeders inbred more closely than we consider acceptable today and that includes to females.

Take a look at George Pope's genetic masterpiece, his homebred Hillary, for an extreme example of inbreeding to superior females.

Thanks Ann. I appreciate you clarifying. Im def no writer. But yes, the theory is forever connected to Rasmussen in name only.

Any thoughts on if the pattern is being used more?

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Am I the only one that doesn't like horses that are over inbred?

I like it if it ties in a pedigree, is through top quality individuals...

[jpops757]

Dosent inbreeding magnify the quality but dont you takethe chance of magnifing the BAD also?

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Balletto

I like it if it ties in a pedigree, is through top quality individuals...

Balletto,
The ones I mentioned were to get Alydar.
Now if it was inbreeding to Storm Cat...I'd have serious doubts. The front leg defects would only become moreso. JMHO.

Alydar is a great name to see in a pedigree. I adore inbreeding to Crimson Saint through Storm Cat, but not Storm Cat himself... at least yet.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by jpops757

Dosent inbreeding magnify the quality but dont you takethe chance of magnifing the BAD also?

That's why breeders cull! Or at least they used to. Geld the colts who get the bad stuff, so it can't be passed on, sell them for riding horses. Inbred fillies sometimes produce better than they run so some breeders retain them to experiment with, otherwise, like the polo pony I rode at one Bluegrass Farm, should be taken out of the TB gene pool. Nobody put a fortune into any one breeding in those days so a failed experiment wasn't the end of the farm.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by jpops757

Dosent inbreeding magnify the quality but dont you takethe chance of magnifing the BAD also?

Yeah, which is why I don't like it. I don't mind seeing some inbreeding (not in the first 3 generations, though.) A horse like Quiet American, for example, should have never have been bred IMO. Way too fragile for my liking because of all the inbreeding, but hey, without him, Bernardini wouldn't be here.