Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Well spoken and I agree with you. There are more pressing matters that need to be taken care of. The top two priorities should be the economy and unemployment.

I had no problems serving with people who liked both sexes. I never had anyone flaunt that the liked both sexes either.

I respect your opinion and, to be honest, it surprises me. I honestly didn't expect this from the type of guy you appear to be - I, and I'm guessing many others here, would have thought you'd feel otherwise. I am impressed! Thank you for your candor.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Honu

If "Dont ask dont Tell" wasnt on the books then the people who are in the military could be asked if they are homo's and discharged for answering honestly or court-martialled for lying. As it stands I think it should be made a public vote weather the citizens of this country who pay for the military to protect them want or care if gays are in the military.

You can't put basic human rights up for vote, and treating people equally is a basic human right. I heard someone say that instead of discharging gays from the military we should instead discharge the people who say they can't work with gays in the military. Which discharge policy would create the greater loss?

[letswastemoney]

If women are in the military, there is no good reason why gays shouldn't be.

There is only one thing they need to change though...build separate quarters for gays, just as women have separate sleeping arrangements I assume as well. It doesn't make sense for gay men to sleep with straight men.

But on the battlefield, it shouldn't matter. You are all out there together to survive.

[letswastemoney]

Ugh I get what happened now.

Democrats tacked on the DREAM Act onto the bill that would let gays in the military.

The two subjects don't even relate to each other....but for some reason it was tacked on....

I support Democrats for the most part, but I must admit I don't agree with tacking on an immigration reform bill to this.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If women are in the military, there is no good reason why gays shouldn't be.

There is only one thing they need to change though...build separate quarters for gays, just as women have separate sleeping arrangements I assume as well. It doesn't make sense for gay men to sleep with straight men.

But on the battlefield, it shouldn't matter. You are all out there together to survive.

I'm not sure separate quarters are necessary, despite what folks may think, gays don't want to have sex with everyone they see. Just like you have a type of woman that you are attracted to, gay folks have their types too... Generally they're attracted to other gay people - it's easier to get laid that way.

The military should separate or discharge anyone that is a sexual predator, not just one classification of sexual orientation. Gays are not another sex or species, a persons orientation is only one component of the whole person that they are. A mature person knows not to sleep with a co-worker... And a military person knows to follow orders - don't look at or covet your bunkmates junk! Really simple concept for the military.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Ugh I get what happened now.

Democrats tacked on the DREAM Act onto the bill that would let gays in the military.

The two subjects don't even relate to each other....but for some reason it was tacked on....

I support Democrats for the most part, but I must admit I don't agree with tacking on an immigration reform bill to this.

DATD was added to this bill for political purposes as well - it's all about getting your base all worked up before a big election. Politicians use these wedge issues to divide us as a country and it's working! If this comes to a vote in the spring it's a non issue but each party wants one more thing they can use to paint the other side as the devil. It's like a bunch of kids pointing fingers and saying, "he did it, I wanted to do the right thing but he wouldn't let me" when they're just as guilty. Everyone has to learn to nut up, do the right thing, live their life, and let others live theirs.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If women are in the military, there is no good reason why gays shouldn't be.

There is only one thing they need to change though...build separate quarters for gays, just as women have separate sleeping arrangements I assume as well. It doesn't make sense for gay men to sleep with straight men.

But on the battlefield, it shouldn't matter. You are all out there together to survive.

What a nonsensical and ignorant statement about women and gays. Your homophobia is showing. I was one of the first women paramedics in this country, and alas, the rampant bunkhouse sex parties and orgies that people like you** feared never happened in that similar situation, either.

**People that think sex comes before work and professionalism at the workplace.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Ugh I get what happened now.

Democrats tacked on the DREAM Act onto the bill that would let gays in the military.

The DADT repeal and the DREAM act were both tacked on to a standard military funding bill that gave our troops raises.

So that - the raises - didn't happen.

"Thanks troops, for your and your families sacrifices, but we hate gays and immigrants more than we want to give you raises - The GOP"

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Riot

What a nonsensical and ignorant statement about women and gays. Your homophobia is showing. I was one of the first women paramedics in this country, and alas, the rampant bunkhouse sex parties and orgies that people like you** feared never happened in that similar situation, either.

**People that think sex comes before work and professionalism at the workplace.

I have zero homophobia. I never even said there would be rampant orgies and sex parties either.

Hell I have several bi sexual friends and have thought nothing of it.

If I slept in the same room with a gay, I'd probably think nothing of it. But I understand some straight people might.

geez.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by Riot

The DADT repeal and the DREAM act were both tacked on to a standard military funding bill that gave our troops raises.

So that - the raises - didn't happen.

"Thanks troops, for your and your families sacrifices, but we hate gays and immigrants more than we want to give you raises - The GOP"

There's no reason for that immigration bill to be on there!!!

I am for gays in the military. I think that's fine.

However, I don't see why that means I have to support illegal immigration!!! They are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT topics! This whole "well you support this...so that means you MUST support this" logic doesn't make sense to me.

Heck, maybe I even change my mind about thinking there should be separate sleeping quarters. I just want gays to be able to openly admit their sexuality in the military already.

I bet there are plenty of Republicans that would have voted to repeal DADT and to give troops a raise if the non-related DREAM ACT was left off.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Honu

If "Dont ask dont Tell" wasnt on the books then the people who are in the military could be asked if they are homo's and discharged for answering honestly or court-martialled for lying. As it stands I think it should be made a public vote weather the citizens of this country who pay for the military to protect them want or care if gays are in the military.

Using the Electoral College Bullshyt, or a raw vote? Might be a big difference. I think it would win a raw vote.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

I have zero homophobia. I never even said there would be rampant orgies and sex parties either.

Hell I have several bi sexual friends and have thought nothing of it.

If I slept in the same room with a gay, I'd probably think nothing of it. But I understand some straight people might.

geez.

Yeah, but here's the thing ... gays are sleeping with straights in the military right now. Always have.

The bill regarding immigration that was tacked on allowed illegal immigrants to start a path to citizenship by first serving in the military.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Honu

If "Dont ask dont Tell" wasnt on the books then the people who are in the military could be asked if they are homo's and discharged for answering honestly or court-martialled for lying. As it stands I think it should be made a public vote weather the citizens of this country who pay for the military to protect them want or care if gays are in the military.

it doesn't matter what a vote tells us, what matters is if the policy stands up to constitutional scrutiny! the majority does not rule if the law they pass is unconstitutional. this rule doesn't stand up. clinton thought it was a valid replacement to the previous policy of asking. if you said you were gay, out the door. if you said you weren't, but they found out you were, out you went.
this rule should mean it's no one's business. but it's being used to toss people out. it's a modern day witch hunt, and is far beneath us and what we're supposed to believe in, and stand for-everyone is supposedly equal here. but i guess some are still considered more equal than others.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Honu

If "Dont ask dont Tell" wasnt on the books then the people who are in the military could be asked if they are homo's and discharged for answering honestly or court-martialled for lying. As it stands I think it should be made a public vote weather the citizens of this country who pay for the military to protect them want or care if gays are in the military.

ridiculous.

If you are willing to fight & die to protect this country, it shouldnt matter if you are Hulk Hogan or a flaming fairy.

The Dream Act and typical Washington politics had nothing to do with this. It's all about Republicans being bigots!

Vote democrat! Listen to Riot! She doesn't have an agenda!

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

The Dream Act and typical Washington politics had nothing to do with this. It's all about Republicans being bigots!

Vote democrat! Listen to Riot! She doesn't have an agenda!

They will always find some excuse to vote against it. What was the excuse in the house? If they brought this bill up, clean as a whistle, they'd get a couple Republican Senators to vote for it. 60 is the new 50.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They will always find some excuse to vote against it. What was the excuse in the house? If they brought this bill up, clean as a whistle, they'd get a couple Republican Senators to vote for it. 60 is the new 50.

SCUDS I don't really give a f.uck about the games either side is playing. One of the reasons why we're in this mess is because those clowns up there only care about NUMERO UNO. And because it's in their best interests to stick with their pack then they will vote that way. The Republicans and Democrats are basically two fraternities that don't like each other. And this "bill" is just a GFY and desperate attempt to get enough of the dumb-downed masses to vote for their side.

I hope they all get voted out. I don't care if the religious nutters take over.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

You can't put basic human rights up for vote, and treating people equally is a basic human right. I heard someone say that instead of discharging gays from the military we should instead discharge the people who say they can't work with gays in the military. Which discharge policy would create the greater loss?

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Honu

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

Im in agreement with you. I did serve twenty years in the military and I had no problems working with someone who liked both sexes.

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by Honu

OMG I know its a fundemental right to be a homo as I am one. This is what Im saying, we the people fund the military of this country, we pay the bill so it should be us who decides who we want dying for our freedoms.
The government has gotten so ahead of us the citizens that(and we have let them)they think they can say what is what when we pay the bills.
If we the people are loud enough about it we can change it.
The biggest problem is that joining the military is a choice and the military officials will akin that to what they think is a choice about being gay.
If a poll was taken among military people I would bet that they wouldnt give a flying frogs azz who serves.

Honu, do you want "we the people" to be able to decide if you can be an exercise rider based upon your sexual orientation? How does who you love have anything to do with how you do your job? It doesn't, it should be irrelevant. But there are still enough people who, for religious reasons, don't think gays should be able to do a lot of things... get married, adopt children, work in the military, etc. They shouldn't get to decide what you or anyone else does for a living or how you live your life. I wouldn't trust any aspect of my life to a vote - no majority should be able to say, you can't marry the person you love, you can't give a child a loving home, and you can't work with straight people just because WE don't like what you do with your personal life.
I am legally married to a woman here in California, how many DTers have had their marriage fall apart because of that fact? How many of their children have had nightmares and have to go through therapy because of my marriage? How many people that I know have had this happen to them? Not a single one. But that's the fear. We're still at least a generation removed from where being gay won't matter, until then any vote having to do with "gay rights" is no sure thing.