Weekend Stakes Beyers

[Kasept]

BEL Jockey Club Gold Cup S (G1): Haynesfield 107 (S. Asmussen/R. Dominguez)
BEL Flower Bowl Invitational S (G1): Ave 97 (R. Attfield/J. Castellano)
BEL Joe Hirsch Turf Classic (G1): Winchester 100 (C. Clement/C. Velasquez)
BEL Vosburgh S (G1): Girolamo 105 (S. bin Suroor/A. Garcia)
BEL Beldame S (G1): Life At Ten 100 (T. Pletcher/J. Velazquez)
BEL Kelso H (G2): Tizway 105 (H. Bond R. Maragh)
BEL Miss Grillo S (G3): Winter Memories 80 (J. Toner/J. Lezcano)
BEL Pilgrim S (G3): Air Support 74 (C. McGaughey/R. Maragh)
BEL Belle Cherie S: Kid Kate 86 (C. Brown/J. Lezcano)
BEL Star of Cozzene S: Colizeo 96 (T. Pletcher/R. Dominguez)

PHA Fitz Dixon Cotillion S (G2): Havre de Grace 104 (A. Dutrow/J. Rose)

OTH Norfolk S (G1): Jaycito 87 (M. Mitchell/M. Smith)
OTH Yellow Ribbon S (G1): Hibaayeb 95 (S. bin Suroor/R. Bejarano)
OTH Lady's Secret S (G1): Zenyatta 100 (J. Shirreffs/M. Smith)
OTH Goodwood S (G1): Richard's Kid 105 (B. Baffert/A. Quinonez)
OTH Clement L. Hirsch S (G1): Champ Pegasus 94 (R. Mandella/J. Rosario)
OTH Oak Leaf S (G1): Rigoletta 85 (D. Hendricks/D. Flores)
OTH Louis R. Rowan S: Mother Ruth 91 (B. Baffert/M. Garcia)

WO Durham Cup S (G3): Southdale 94 (I. Black/J. McAleney)
WO Carotene S: Jenny's So Great 86 (G. de Gannes/J. Ferrer)
WO Victorian Queen S: Medabuck 68 (T. Jordan J. McAleney)
WO Belle Geste S: Sugar Bay 89 (M. Benson/L. Contreras)

HOO Indiana Derby (G2): Lookin At Lucky 103 (B. Baffert/M. Garcia)
HOO Indiana Oaks (G2): Always a Princess 101 (B. Baffert/M. Garcia)
HOO Michael G. Schaefer Mile S: Jardim 96 (E. Caramori/J. Court)
HOO Miss Indiana S: Perfectly Candid 72 (R. Gorham/L. Goncalves)
HOO Indiana Futurity: Bellamy Jones 66 (R. Gorham/F. De La Cruz)
HOO Hoosier Breeders Sophomore S: Northern Candyride 80 (R. Kohnhorst/L. Goncalves)
HOO Hoosier Breeders Sophomore S: Whistlin' Jean 80(M. Lauer/R. Albarado)

FL New York Breeders' Futurity: Bug Juice 91 (B. Levine/J. Davila)

HAW Hawthorne Gold Cup H (G2): Redding Colliery 105 (K. McLaughlin/A. Napravnik)
HAW Robert F. Carey Memorial H (G3): Amazing Results 94 (C. Block/E. Perez)

LRL Maryland Million Classic S: Regal Solo 92 (D. Dilodovico/S. Russell)
LRL Maryland Million Lassie S: Doing Great 65 (M. Trombetta/J. Pimentel()
LRL Maryland Million Ladies S: My Sweet Nenana 72(D. O'Ryan/C. Ho)
LRL Maryland Million Nursery S: Steady Warrior 77 (G. Capuano/T. Dunkelberger)
LRL Maryland Million Oaks: Baltimore Belle 81 (J. Secor/V. Diaz)
LRL Maryland Million Turf S: Pocket Patch 86 (F. Stites/J. Joyce)
LRL Maryland Million Distaff H: Blind Date 87 (H. Smith/S. Russell)
LRL Maryland Million Turf Sprint H: Ben's Cat 90 (K. Leatherbury/J. Pimentel)
LRL Maryland Million Sprint H: Jack On the Rocks 96 (G. Gullo/S. Russell)

MTH Princeton S: Karmageddon 86 (D. Nunn/D. Beckner)

DEL Blue Hen S: Summer Laugh 71 (T. Pletcher/F. Jara)

TDN John W. Galbreath S: Startin Something 43 (T. Hamm/J. Lumpkins)
TDN Juvenile S: Jump Boots 45 (J. Woodard Y. Rosario)
TDN Best of Ohio Distaff S: Slides Choice 80(T. Hamm/J. Lumpkins)
TDN Best of Ohio Endurance S: Catlaunch 81 (I. Vazquez/L. Gonzalez)

[The Indomitable DrugS]

It took some real artistry to get Zenyatta's Beyer to 100.

They ran 3 route races at HP on Saturday. They were races 6, 7, and 9. The Norfolk, Lady's Secret, and Goodwood

Norfolk

* Jaycito broke his maiden in the Norfolk despite an impossible five wide trip on both turns - and was given an 87 Beyer



That figure represents a 9 point new career top - impressive considering he had a trip from hell.

* Fellow maiden Riveting Reason also had to overcome a wide trip and finish 3rd at odds of 36/1 ...



Despite the tough trip - he got an 82 Beyer - which represents an 11 point career top for him, and an improvement of 14 points over his last start.

* The horse who benefited with a ground saving trip was hapless 71/1 longshot 4th place finisher Clearance Clearance



he surged to a 20 point new career top - running an 80 despite having to eyeball stellar sprinter J P's Gusto for a long way on the early lead.


* And finally - J P Gusto was 2nd as the heavy favorite in the Norfolk despite racing very rank and struggling to settle - yet his Beyer was only 1 point lower than it was in his 4.5 length Grade 1 romping Del Mar Futurity win last time out.

I played against J P's Gusto in this race because of his pedigree. His sire Successful Appeal was an extremely good sprinter who once ran a 119 Beyer at 6fs. Twice competed in the BC Sprint. The dam of J P's Gusto - Call Her Magic - once ran a 107 Beyer going 5 furlongs on the turf, while winning a small stake by a huge margin at Delaware Park. She had major distance limitations - but was a freaky female turf sprinter.

Obviously ... The Norfolk figure seems a little too high .. but, remember, the whole objective seems to be to get Zenyatta to a 100.


Lady's Secret

* Zenyatta wore down Switch late to win. She was given a 100 Beyer.

Zenyatta was given a 95 Beyer for her Clement Hirsch win last time out - but only after a variant was split with the days other route race - which was run 30 minutes earlier. Because of the very slow pace that benefited Dance to My Tune and Rinterval - and hurt Zenyatta - the final time figure should have been in the mid to high 80's last time. Dance to My Tune has been beaten twice since, including getting dusted by 9 lengths as the 3/5 favorite at Fairplex in a 50K stake. Rinterval, who has lost 20 of her last 21 races against a lot of crummy competion, has yet to run back.

* 3yo filly Switch was 2nd and was given a 99 Beyer.



*pace setter Moon De French (who had failed to hit the board in every prior attempt in non restricted stakes races) and Satan's Quick Chick (first off of a 9 month layoff - and was 6th at Presque Isle Downs in her most recent attempt at a synthetic route) dead heated for 3rd place .. both earning Grade 1 black type. Emmy Darling - who was claimed last time out - rounded out the field.


Goodwood

* I can't recall the last time a horse was off the board as a 3/5 favorite in a Grade 1 stakes race - and still ran a new lifetime top Beyer in the same race. Well, that's what happed with soundly beaten 4th place finisher Twirling Candy .. his 99 Beyer in defeat represents a new career top for him.

* Richard's Kid won this race with a 105 Beyer .... 9 points higher than the 96 he ran in winning the Pacific Classic last time out.

Did Richard's Kid really improve 5 lengths over his Pac Classic repeat win? Keep in mind, 5 lengths on synthetic is HUGE .. it's typically the difference between first and sixth in a lot of races.

* Crown of Thorns ran an awesome race second off of the year layoff - and stretching out from 7f to 9f. That's a brutal stretch out on synthetic - even a little more so than turf in my opinion. Anyway - he overcame a lot of pressure applied by Twirling Candy - and ran a great race to get a 104.

* 3rd place finish Dakota Phone got a 100 Beyer. He was also 3rd to Richard's Kid in the Pacific Classic last time out - there he ran a 94 Beyer. His Beyer spiked 6 points. Coming into the Goodwood - he had run figures of 94, 95, 95, 91, 89, 86 in his last six starts.


To me, it looks like everyones figures were inflated by about 5 points just to get Zenyatta to a 100.

[10 pnt move up]

Your using dirt logic to critic figures on a surface were figures mean nothing........WHY?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Your using dirt logic to critic figures on a surface were figures mean nothing........WHY?

If you think figures mean nothing on a synthetic surface - you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

In truth, they certainly mean a whole lot more on synthetic than turf - and at face value, like most people take them - they mean a whole lot more on synthetic than dirt as well.

I have a lot of experience handicapping and betting on races on synthetic tracks - you're not talking to someone during year one of Keeneland polytrack when no one had any idea what to make of it.

Mikey Smith!! Yay!!

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If you think figures mean nothing on a synthetic surface - you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

In truth, they certainly mean a whole lot more on synthetic than turf - and at face value, like most people take them - they mean a whole lot more on synthetic than dirt as well.

I have a lot of experience handicapping and betting on races on synthetic tracks - you're not talking to someone during year one of Keeneland polytrack when no one had any idea what to make of it.

Mikey Smith!! Yay!!

Go wash some socks.

[miraja2]

Do you think the inflation is merely the result of the Beyer people being aware that others perceive them as anti-Zenyatta? Are they inflating the figs simply to avoid being criticized for supposedly having an agenda against her?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Do you think the inflation is merely the result of the Beyer people being aware that others perceive them as anti-Zenyatta? Are they inflating the figs simply to avoid being criticized for supposedly having an agenda against her?

I don't know.

Perhaps they're embarassed to give her a number as low as she earned.

If she somehow wins the BC Classic off of 95 Beyers it might make them look bad to people whom they shouldn't even be worrying about.

[Indian Charlie]

I think there seems to be an effort being made by those in the media, to make Zenyatta into this all time great.

Between the totally brainless stuff written up by Davidowitz, and I think Haskin, to the pure blabber coming out of the talking heads at TVG, to the hyped up BCC call by Denman, and supposedly experienced and otherwise fairly intelligent 'insiders' saying she's go great, it just seems like there is a lot of effort going on to make us believe she's the second coming of Secretariat.

I mean really, all this stuff is just total nonsense. I've never seen so many people lose their heads over something that really isn't nearly as great as they seem to think.

It's all rather UN - BE - LIEVE - A -BLE!!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

People like nice win-loss records.

Remember Sports Illustrated including Pepper's Pride in the 20 best horses to race last decade?

She wasn't even close to being one of the 2,000 best horses last decade - but her win/loss record was perfect.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I think there seems to be an effort being made by those in the media, to make Zenyatta into this all time great.

Between the totally brainless stuff written up by Davidowitz, and I think Haskin, to the pure blabber coming out of the talking heads at TVG, to the hyped up BCC call by Denman, and supposedly experienced and otherwise fairly intelligent 'insiders' saying she's go great, it just seems like there is a lot of effort going on to make us believe she's the second coming of Secretariat.

I mean really, all this stuff is just total nonsense. I've never seen so many people lose their heads over something that really isn't nearly as great as they seem to think.

It's all rather UN - BE - LIEVE - A -BLE!!

She is 19 for 19 and there is nothing about that to indicate TOTAL NONSENSE. Last year heading into the BC, I was supportive of RA for horse of the year, no doubt. Coming out of the BC Classic, I wasn't so clear on the subject, though after watching RA lay her guts on the line at Saratoga, in person, and really never seeing anything like that live (with the crowd and all) I was still an RA supporter.

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right. Who has accomplised more than she has in her lifetime? In the fashion that she does it? Against the level of compettiton that she does it against? Over and over and over? She has won me over, and besides all of the non-sense on TVG and the other folks that are overcompensating for their belief that Z was shafted last year, why is there so much hate for what is going on with her? Is there some other horse that would otherwise be considered an "all-time great" if Z wasn't in the picture?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

She is 19 for 19 and there is nothing about that to indicate TOTAL NONSENSE. Last year heading into the BC, I was supportive of RA for horse of the year, no doubt. Coming out of the BC Classic, I wasn't so clear on the subject, though after watching RA lay her guts on the line at Saratoga, in person, and really never seeing anything like that live (with the crowd and all) I was still an RA supporter.

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right. Who has accomplised more than she has in her lifetime? In the fashion that she does it? Against the level of compettiton that she does it against? Over and over and over? She has won me over, and besides all of the non-sense on TVG and the other folks that are overcompensating for their belief that Z was shafted last year, why is there so much hate for what is going on with her? Is there some other horse that would otherwise be considered an "all-time great" if Z wasn't in the picture?

Off the top of my head I can really only think of:


Affirmed
Secretariat
Citation
Kelso
Count Fleet
Dr. Fager
Phar Lap
John Henry
Native Dancer
Forego
Seattle Slew
Spectacular Bid
Tom Fool
Man O' War
War Admiral
Buckpasser
Colin
Damascus
Cigar
Bold Ruler
Swaps
Nashua
Seabiscuit
Whirlaway
Alydar
Ruffian
Alysheba
Northern Dancer
Sword Dancer
Riva Ridge
Slew o'Gold
Native Diver
Silver Charm
Holy Bull
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Skip Away


But I'm sure there are probably several dozen more that I'm not thinking about.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Off the top of my head I can really only think of:


Affirmed
Secretariat
Citation
Kelso
Count Fleet
Dr. Fager
Native Dancer
Forego
Seattle Slew
Spectacular Bid
Tom Fool
Man O' War
War Admiral
Buckpasser
Colin
Damascus
Cigar
Bold Ruler
Swaps
Phar Lap
John Henry
Nashua
Seabiscuit
Whirlaway
Alydar
Ruffian
Alysheba
Northern Dancer
Sword Dancer
Riva Ridge
Slew o'Gold
Native Diver
Silver Charm
Holy Bull
Sunday Silence
Easy Goer
Skip Away


But I'm sure there are probably several dozen more that I'm not thinking about.

She's never lost a race and won 17 graded stakes races in a row. I can't recall if any of the one's you mention did that or not, can you? It doesn't make her better than them, but "one of the" shouldn't be discounted.

From what I can tell none of those have run this century. How is Zenatta overshadowing them?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

From what I can tell none of those have run this century. How is Zenatta overshadowing them?

You know her name is Zenyatta, right?

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

She is 19 for 19 and there is nothing about that to indicate TOTAL NONSENSE. Last year heading into the BC, I was supportive of RA for horse of the year, no doubt. Coming out of the BC Classic, I wasn't so clear on the subject, though after watching RA lay her guts on the line at Saratoga, in person, and really never seeing anything like that live (with the crowd and all) I was still an RA supporter.

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right. Who has accomplised more than she has in her lifetime? In the fashion that she does it? Against the level of compettiton that she does it against? Over and over and over? She has won me over, and besides all of the non-sense on TVG and the other folks that are overcompensating for their belief that Z was shafted last year, why is there so much hate for what is going on with her? Is there some other horse that would otherwise be considered an "all-time great" if Z wasn't in the picture?

Who again is zenatta?

[NoLuvForPletch]

I'd say typo but i did it twice. But yes I know her name is Zenyatta.

Thanks

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

This year, after being "retired", Zenatta's accomplishements, though to this point against competition that is not as talented as what RA faced last year, is remarkable in its own right.

Other than a desperate win over St. Trinians at 9fs - She's accomplished very little this year.

The rest of her races - she was a justifable 1/20 shot on paper - in races that should have only been interesting to you if you bridgejumped her in the place pool.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

She's never lost a race and won 17 graded stakes races in a row. I can't recall if any of the one's you mention did that or not, can you? It doesn't make her better than them, but "one of the" shouldn't be discounted.

Let's take a look at just one horse off the list....I'll pick....Affirmed.
Did he win 17 in a row? Nope.
Winning 17 in a row isn't particularly easy when you race against Alydar, Exceller, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Coastal, Sensitive Prince, etc. time after time....over the course of a career.
So if you ask me who accomplished more between Affirmed and Zenyatta, to me, it isn't even close....despite her impressive streak.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Let's take one horse off the list....Affirmed.
Did he win 17 in a row? Nope.
Winning 17 in a row isn't particularly easy when you race against Alydar, Exceller, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Coastal, Sensitive Prince, etc. time after time....over the course of a career.
So if you ask me who accomplished more between Affirmed and Zenyatta, to me, it isn't even close....despite her impressive streak.

That's cool. I like Affirmed and a whole lot of others on the list of "all time greats" on the list you supplied. I'm just saying there is no need to omit her from the list because you don't think she is the best of all time. I don't think she is the best of all time either. See we can agree on something.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kasept

HAW Hawthorne Gold Cup H (G2): Redding Colliery TBD (K. McLaughlin/A. Napravnik)

This one should be good.

After the top three finisher - you could hit a golf ball between the margins of each horse from 4th place to 5th - 5th to 6th - 6th to 7th - and 7th to 8th.

Redding Colliery went way too fast early and somehow held in a race that absolutley collaped in behind him. 2nd and 3rd place were 17.5 lengths and 19.5 lengths back after just 6 furlongs.

http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRaces...=20101002&RN=8

RC seems to have run a fucl<ing awesome race... but I have no pace pars or anything from Hawthorne to confirm that water is wet.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Other than a desperate win over St. Trinians at 9fs - She's accomplished very little this year.

The rest of her races - she was a justifable 1/20 shot on paper - in races that should have only been interesting to you if you bridgejumped her in the place pool.

When we were all annointing RA queen last year, who was she beating? Nothing other than the horses that she lined up to race against, which looking back includes a pretty weak group of animals. Where do Macho Again and Summer Bird rank on your list of "horses I would never want to face"?

Yes, she should win these races she is competing in. Was she supposed to win the Classic last year? It's a good thing Haynesfield isn't running in the Classic this year because she'd never catch him. Haynesfield who just embarrassed our hero Blame, who beat our hero Quality Road. She is the best of what we've got right now. And if it's a watered down group, so be it.