Brisbet take on Bernie

dellinger63 · #1 10-11-2006, 10:33 AM

"He captured Saturday's Jockey Club Gold Cup (G1) under a gallop, widening his lead through the stretch to 6 3/4 lengths with jockey Javier Castellano sitting still in the saddle. That makes six straight wins for the wondrous equine, and it's the same story every time. When Bernardini reaches the top of the stretch, the race is over. Castellano can name the margin.

Swift and powerful on the track, Bernardini's excellence can be measured by Speed ratings. He's on hallowed ground with numbers, earning a whopping 116 BRIS Speed rating for the Jockey Club Gold Cup. The bay colt posted a 111 Speed rating for his 7 3/4-length romp in the Travers S. (G1), and a 114 for his 5 1/4-length score in the Preakness S. (G1). In fact, the lowest Speed number Bernardini has earned since breaking his maiden is a 110. Very special indeed.

How good is Bernardini?

He's good enough to leave goose bumps.

Horses like Bernardini can capture our imagination. He still has to win the Breeders' Cup Classic (G1) on November 4, but no horse appears capable of stopping him. The Classic may be his defining moment."

Sidebar: Lava Man earned a 107 in his last which is below Bernardini's last 3. If you saw the JGC dini jogged and is capable of much more. My hope is we see how much more Nov 4.
PS Even if he loses at least I'll get a Carolina pork samich which will be worth the trip to Louisvilleby itself. LOL

blackthroatedwind · #2 10-11-2006, 10:43 AM

" The Classic may be his defining moment."

For better or for worse?

This is really getting a bit tiresome. If one hadn't actually seen Bernardini, or understood speed figures, or known the relative abilities of those he's faced, one would get the feeling he was f'n Pegasus and he had extra strong wings. This kind of silly crap bears no relation whatsoever to this horse. He's a very good horse, one who may even be exceptionally good, but as of now he is no better than 50 horses that have run in the last 20 years. OK, that's pretty damn good, but hardly the kind of accolades that are being thrown around.

And by the way, who wrote that on Brisbet, and why should we care what he or she thinks? This person is more qualified than whom?

#3 10-11-2006, 10:46 AM

James Scully wrote it. I never heard of him. Has he written anything else?

randallscott35 · #4 10-11-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

" The Classic may be his defining moment."

For better or for worse?

This is really getting a bit tiresome. If one hadn't actually seen Bernardini, or understood speed figures, or known the relative abilities of those he's faced, one would get the feeling he was f'n Pegasus and he had extra strong wings. This kind of silly crap bears no relation whatsoever to this horse. He's a very good horse, one who may even be exceptionally good, but as of now he is no better than 50 horses that have run in the last 20 years. OK, that's pretty damn good, but hardly the kind of accolades that are being thrown around.

And by the way, who wrote that on Brisbet, and why should we care what he or she thinks? This person is more qualified than whom?

I agree as I've stated already. Its just too premature to me the way people are talking. And that's not taking a shot at the horse---that's what people need to realize. Even Albertrani realizes that more needs to be done. That's just common sense.

dellinger63 · #5 10-11-2006, 10:51 AM

Guess that's why we have mutual pools. I know he will be overbet and like I did at Belmont will probably pass the race. I am a big Bernardni FAN and like I said I hope we see all of what he's got.

blackthroatedwind · #6 10-11-2006, 10:52 AM

It's just more irresponsible journalism in racing leading people in the wrong direction. No wonder so many people are confused about what a really good horse is or was ( see Lost in the Fog among others ).

ArlJim78 · #7 10-11-2006, 10:54 AM

Ok so Bernardini's last four bris speed numbers were 114, 111, 111, 116.

Invasor's three G1 wins this year earned these ratings 112, 118, 115.
Invasor also had troubled starts in at least two of those races.

My question is why is there no big fanfare for what this horse has done?

If Bernardini's numbers are considered "whopping" by this writer, what exactly are wrong with Invasors numbers and why don't they "leave goose bumps"?

Revolution · #8 10-11-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Ok so Bernardini's last four bris speed numbers were 114, 111, 111, 116.

Invasor's three G1 wins this year earned these ratings 112, 118, 115.
Invasor also had troubled starts in at least two of those races.

My question is why is there no big fanfare for what this horse has done?

If Bernardini's numbers are considered whopping by this writer, what exactly are wrong with Invasors numbers and why don't they "leave goose bumps"?

Bernardini did not have to fight off a Sun King. Bernardini is an AP Indy too. He continues to just get better.

JJP · #9 10-11-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Ok so Bernardini's last four bris speed numbers were 114, 111, 111, 116.

Invasor's three G1 wins this year earned these ratings 112, 118, 115.
Invasor also had troubled starts in at least two of those races.

My question is why is there no big fanfare for what this horse has done?

If Bernardini's numbers are considered "whopping" by this writer, what exactly are wrong with Invasors numbers and why don't they "leave goose bumps"?

Like the Beyers or not, they are far more reliable than the worthless BRIS figs. And on the Beyer scale, Invasor wasn't in Bernardini's league.

randallscott35 · #10 10-11-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Ok so Bernardini's last four bris speed numbers were 114, 111, 111, 116.

Invasor's three G1 wins this year earned these ratings 112, 118, 115.
Invasor also had troubled starts in at least two of those races.

My question is why is there no big fanfare for what this horse has done?

If Bernardini's numbers are considered "whopping" by this writer, what exactly are wrong with Invasors numbers and why don't they "leave goose bumps"?

Excellent question? Bernie's, one can argue, were in softer spots to boot.

ArlJim78 · #11 10-11-2006, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

Like the Beyers or not, they are far more reliable than the worthless BRIS figs. And on the Beyer scale, Invasor wasn't in Bernardini's league.

beyers just have not been anywhere near as reliable imo.

#12 10-11-2006, 11:02 AM

I'm kind of torn right now. Reading all of the posts about Bernardini have me concerned about the possible mental problems that will arise if Bernardini loses in the BCC. I don't want people who've invested their heart and soul into the horse to have their dreams shattered, but on the other hand it probably would do them some good to step back into reality and lasso in some of those bold opinions.

One thing's for sure, I'd love to own cash call on BC day.

Revolution · #13 10-11-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Excellent question? Bernie's, one can argue, were in softer spots to boot.

But with little effort.

Did you read this in that Haskin article

Walking back to the test barn, Bernardini was still so strong, his groom, Jose Amezcua, who had been nursing a bad back, asked Rehm to help him hold the horse. "He was pulling him so hard, Jose made me grab the other rein," said Rehm. "He said, 'He's going to run away from me.' In the test barn, he took one little sip of water and that was it."

randallscott35 · #14 10-11-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

But with little effort.

Did you read this in that Haskin article

Walking back to the test barn, Bernardini was still so strong, his groom, Jose Amezcua, who had been nursing a bad back, asked Rehm to help him hold the horse. "He was pulling him so hard, Jose made me grab the other rein," said Rehm. "He said, 'He's going to run away from me.' In the test barn, he took one little sip of water and that was it."

Rev, this is so subjective. Its so difficult to know how much more a horse can give at any one time. Some horses do in fact have more. And some run slower when they get hit repeatedly. How they respond to the pressure isn't known until it happens. And Lord knows it wasn't going to happen from Wanderin Boy or the Dr. Pleasures of the world.....NOT a knock on Bernie, but it needs to be seen.

Revolution · #15 10-11-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Rev, this is so subjective. Its so difficult to know how much more a horse can give at any one time. Some horses do in fact have more. And some run slower when they get hit repeatedly. How they respond to the pressure isn't known until it happens. And Lord knows it wasn't going to happen from Wanderin Boy or the Dr. Pleasures of the world.....NOT a knock on Bernie, but it needs to be seen.

Well considering they probably will retire him, hopefully they will let him go all out in the BCC. If he were to break Secretariat's track record at 10F, it would be hard to argue he isn't one of the top 5 horses to ever run.

randallscott35 · #16 10-11-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Well considering they probably will retire him, hopefully they will let him go all out in the BCC. If he were to break Secretariat's track record at 10F, it would be hard to argue he isn't one of the top 5 horses to ever run.

This is flat out crazy as a statement. 5 ever?

#17 10-11-2006, 11:14 AM

Break Secretariat's record.

ROFLMMFAO.

Whoooo.

ArlJim78 · #18 10-11-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Well considering they probably will retire him, hopefully they will let him go all out in the BCC. If he were to break Secretariat's track record at 10F, it would be hard to argue he isn't one of the top 5 horses to ever run.

10F track record? you might want to ease up on the kool-aid there rev!

Revolution · #19 10-11-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

10F track record? you might want to ease up on the kool-aid there rev!

Yes. It is 1:59.40 at Churchill, where Secretariat did it in the KY Derby. I could easily see them making the track very fast and I think Bernardini is going to break the record.

SniperSB23 · #20 10-11-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJP

Like the Beyers or not, they are far more reliable than the worthless BRIS figs. And on the Beyer scale, Invasor wasn't in Bernardini's league.

I disagree. Invasor went from 108 to 111 to 113 in his three races. Bernardini went from 114 to 116 to 117 in his last three. Considering the standard error on those figures and that the figure from one race is used to compute the figure for the next there is really little that significantly separates the two. You could make the argument that Bernardini could have gone faster if pushed which may or may not be true but to say those figures aren't in the same league when statistically they aren't even significantly different wouldn't be correct.