Shirreffs says Zenyatta deserves '10 Horse of the Year

[the_fat_man]

Say what you want about Smooth Operator, however, keep in mind that:

1) he wasn't gaga over RA --- how'd her season turn out? RA the RD (Roberto Duran) of the TBRED set. No mas, baby.

2) nor was he ever on the QR bandwagon --- notice how his many supporters are no longer beating their chest about how he'll have no trouble going 10F. In fact, they're now pushing the OPPOSITE. Now, that's prescience.


I know one thing: If I were pushing 1 and 2, and heavily, on these forums, I'd STFU for the rest of the year and not worry about Z or what her connections or her supporters were doing.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

The campaign was designed to get her to that contest fresh and primed to deliver a peak performance (amazing how many on this board can't seem to understand this).

That's exactly correct.

It's reasonable to be disappointed they didn't take a few more shots on dirt or against older males.

It's reasonable to think that running on synthetic tracks against weak mares isn't the best way to prepare a horse for the Classic.

It's reasonable to think the CA mare crop was very weak this year.

It's reasonable to say other people would have done it a totally different way.

But IMO it's not reasonable "to at least understand the thinking" behind the goal of getting a horse to a specific year end race by spacing her campaign and staying with her own sex.

Sure some horses do well despite all the shipping and tough races, they remain sound, etc.. and make until the end of the year still fresh and ready to fire, but that says nothing about the probabilities and all the horses that don't.

[Dahoss]

I know one thing. If I posted 66 straight losers in the selections room I'd STFU forever.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I know one thing. If I posted 66 straight losers in the selections room I'd STFU forever.

hossy..did I tell you it's great to have you back!

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I know one thing. If I posted 66 straight losers in the selections room I'd STFU forever.

Who did that?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I know one thing. If I posted 66 straight losers in the selections room I'd STFU forever.

No you wouldn't, because you'd be The Fat Man.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I think this is where we sometimes can get into a bit of a double standard.

I 100% agree that her 2010 campaign has been weak for a HOTY candidate because typically HOTY goes to a horse that competed in either the Triple Crown races and/or a series of Grade 1 races open to older males. It's rare that a mare is even in the conversation.

Right or wrong, she's part of the conversation partly because of her overall record and partly because of her win in the Classic last year.

The thing is, no one required mares like Personal Ensign, Bayakoa, Go for Wand, etc... to compete in Grade 1 races open to males all year long before getting any respect and none of those all time greats even considered running in the Classic. So they more or less took themselves out of consideration for HOTY unless all the males sucked. Zenyatta is taking a shot.

I think the Classic is one part of the overall picture and should probably be weighed the strongest because other than the Derby (restricted to 3YOs) it's the only race where all the best horses around the world get together. So it's typically by far the highest quality race of the year.

How you weigh it vs. other accomplishments is open to debate, but I don't think a mare should be punished for doing as much or more than some of the other great mares before her. They all primarily run against their own sex and take a selective shot here or there against top males and it's usually a weak field. Some don't even go that far. Only Azeri tried the Classic. I don't think the standard should be that any mare that wants consideration should have to compete against Grade 1 males all year long. It's not going to happen when there are easier pickings and lower demands on the horses staying with their own sex most of the season.

The few exceptions are 3YO fillies that compete in Triple Crown preps and the actual Triple Crown races against other 3YOs. The reason that happens more often is that fillies tend to develop sooner than colts and are often competitive with 3YO colts UNTIL later in the season when the colts develop further and move past them.

personal ensign faced and defeated males, including eclipse award winner gulch before running in the distaff and defeating the ky derby/santa anita derby winner. she also retired undefeated, a perfect 13 for 13. alysheba got HOY, and deservedly so. i don't recall if PE was even mentioned as being in the running. zenyatta shouldn't be in the running at this point at all, not with what she's done this year. the only thing her connections are hanging their hats on is her 19/19 record. she didn't accomplish all that this year. if blame or QR wins the classic, her trainer can politic all he wishes. she wouldn't deserve to win, or even get in the voting, based on this years races-and isn't that what the award is for?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

personal ensign faced and defeated males, including eclipse award winner gulch before running in the distaff and defeating the ky derby/santa anita derby winner. she also retired undefeated, a perfect 13 for 13. alysheba got HOY, and deservedly so. i don't recall if PE was even mentioned as being in the running. zenyatta shouldn't be in the running at this point at all, not with what she's done this year. the only thing her connections are hanging their hats on is her 19/19 record. she didn't accomplish all that this year. if blame or QR wins the classic, her trainer can politic all he wishes. she wouldn't deserve to win, or even get in the voting, based on this years races-and isn't that what the award is for?

Personal Ensign was never in that HOY discussion, though in all fairness, Alysheba had a great year ( and much better than anyone this year ).

[Port Conway Lane]

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/29/sp...e-of-1988.html
The filly got 40 votes,Risen Star one vote.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

The thing is, no one required mares like Personal Ensign, Bayakoa, Go for Wand, etc... to compete in Grade 1 races open to males all year long before getting any respect and none of those all time greats even considered running in the Classic.

The difference is those horses regularly competed against top-class runners on dirt. Zenyatta has compiled her record by mostly beating up on tin cans over a surface that will eventually be a footnote in racing history.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

The difference is those horses regularly competed against top-class runners on dirt. Zenyatta has compiled her record by mostly beating up on tin cans over a surface that will eventually be a footnote in racing history.

Notto mention the top class older males of that era were far superior to what passes for a handicap division now. If Alysheba were running today, Zenyatta would be on a farm in KY getting fat because there is zero chance that they would have tried horses of that class.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Notto mention the top class older males of that era were far superior to what passes for a handicap division now. If Alysheba were running today, Zenyatta would be on a farm in KY getting fat because there is zero chance that they would have tried horses of that class.

would you say the filly and mares are now the strength of racing the past decade or so?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

would you say the filly and mares are now the strength of racing the past decade or so?

Rachel Alexandra excluded....no.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Rachel Alexandra excluded....no.

I am trying hard to come up with a strength, at least the fillies last longer.


Is it the three year olds, such as Lookin at Lucky, Mine that Bird, Giacomo, D Tara?

[Indian Charlie]

Uncle Mo.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I am trying hard to come up with a strength, at least the fillies last longer.


Is it the three year olds, such as Lookin at Lucky, Mine that Bird, Giacomo, D Tara?

I don't understand what you're getting at, other than the usual bad attempts at trying to be funny, as there were clearly some very good horses this decade.

Ghostzapper? Point Given? Tiznow? Bernardini? Invasor? There are more than a few others.

[letswastemoney]

Bayakoa competed some of the Southern California G1s. I don't remember which ones they were (SA Cap?, Pacific Classic? I don't know...) but I know she was in 1 or 2 of them and couldn't handle the competition...

which is fine. It was good to see her try.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Say what you want about Smooth Operator, however, keep in mind that:

1) he wasn't gaga over RA --- how'd her season turn out? RA the RD (Roberto Duran) of the TBRED set. No mas, baby.

2) nor was he ever on the QR bandwagon --- notice how his many supporters are no longer beating their chest about how he'll have no trouble going 10F. In fact, they're now pushing the OPPOSITE. Now, that's prescience.


I know one thing: If I were pushing 1 and 2, and heavily, on these forums, I'd STFU for the rest of the year and not worry about Z or what her connections or her supporters were doing.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Rachel Alexandra excluded....no.

[Smooth Operator]

Yeah, must've been just chilling watching PE beat the miler and the 800-year-old G3 gelding in that '88 Whitney…