Shirreffs says Zenyatta deserves '10 Horse of the Year

[GPK]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Somewhere GPK got his wings.

You're still sore he cost you a few in our matchup bets

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by GPK

You're still sore he cost you a few in our matchup bets

I could use that hundred now. Haha

[GPK]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I could use that hundred now. Haha

You have no idea...wait til that baby actually gets here

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by GPK

You have no idea...wait til that baby actually gets here

Costco.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by JDank34

I know this is nothing new to you or most on DT, but instead of the greed giant that is Kee charging $10 to park, $5 to enter, .....

First of all, the $10 is only for valet parking; the closest-in lots are now $5 instead of free, but the largest amount of parking area is still free, with shuttle buses to get you closer to the grandstand. See http://www.keeneland.com/racing/list...irections.aspx

Keeneland is more than a racetrack for Lexington folks; it is a social ritual. Young people come out to have a good time, not bet on the horses, but they do a bit of that, too. The grandstands are crowded, so it doesn't look like the higher price has cut into attendance (up from $3.50).

Oh, and you do know that the Keeneland Association is a non-profit, right? Anything left over after operating expenses and servicing debt goes to charity; Keeneland has given millions to charities in the Central Kentucky area over the years. It was formed by local breeders after the old Kentucky Association track downtown closed (and later became a housing project) so that the center of the breeding industry would still have a showcase for its products. And the sales part of the business has always subsidized the racing to a certain extent. Maybe since sales commissions have been down over the last couple of years, the association decided that the racing side needed to pay more of its way.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

That's exactly right.

They wanted to test her against males eventually and Gulch was a very good horse, but they also were selective about it. They could have picked a race they knew Alysheba, Ferndinand, Bet Twice, Lost Code etc.. would be in.

They could have gone in the Classic instead of the Distaff.

The difference between me and others is that I don't trash the connections of PE for avoiding the best males and choosing the Distaff when she was fit and ready to go for the Classic. I realize that many of the greatest mares never even tried older Grade 1 horses and others tried and got demolished.

Azeri tried - demolished
Bayakoa tried - demolished
Dance Smartly - successful but only in Canada
Go for Wand - never tried it.
Paseana - demolished
Sky Beauty - never tried it
Inside Information - never tried it
Heavenly Prize - tried once and was well beaten by Cigar & Wekiva Springs
Silver Bullet Lady - demolished in Belmont

Relaxing - finished a good third to John Henry
Susan's Girl - demolished
Typecast - won at 12f turf
Drumtop - won 7 stakes against top male turfers, including HoY Fort Marcy

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Is Pedigree Ann trolling?

Now where I went to school, 'trolling' meant studying, as in trolls never saw the light of day since they were always at their desk or lab. ('Snaking' is what you did before exams to pass. Trolls did it for the love of it.) I have no idea how you are using the term.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Relaxing - finished a good third to John Henry
Susan's Girl - demolished
Typecast - won at 12f turf
Drumtop - won 7 stakes against top male turfers, including HoY Fort Marcy

Drumtop-all 15 hands and a bit, was a very tough little girl--the first horse I took to the races ...

Have we forgotten Shuvee winning the JCGC two years in a row ???

[blackthroatedwind]

And Waya beat the boys in the Man O War and Turf Classic.

What about All Along....she only won the Arc, Washington DC International, Canadian International, and Turf Classic in seven weeks.

How about Dahlia?

Surely Zenyatta was better than all of these. What a joke.

[prudery]

I was just going to add Waya, but this is a more common occurence on turf --like All Along, Pebbles, and Dahlia--and on dirt it happens more commonly in sprints or absolute routes .

Ta Wee, Safely Kept, XTra Heat, etc could do it going short .

My Juliet knocked off the brilliantly fast Bold Forbes in the Vosburgh, and managed to stretch it in the Michigan Mile and one eighth ..

We also forgot Lady's Secret who won in the more contentious mid range of distance.

All Along , Dahlia and Waya were turfers--though Waya won on dirt--surely the poster that put this out knows that the aforementioned horse does not run on turf .....

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by prudery

I was just going to add Waya, but this is a more common occurence on turf --like All Along, Pebbles, and Dahlia--and on dirt it happens more commonly in sprints or absolute routes .

Ta Wee, Safely Kept, XTra Heat, etc could do it going short .

My Juliet knocked off the brilliantly fast Bold Forbes in the Vosburgh, and managed to stretch it in the Michigan Mile and one eighth ..

We also forgot Lady's Secret who won in the more contentious mid range of distance.

All Along , Dahlia and Waya were turfers--though Waya won on dirt--surely the poster that put this out knows that the aforementioned horse does not run on turf .....

Good call on My Juliet. Loved her.

It's actually more accurate to compare Zenyatta to turf horses at this point....at least in this manner.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

She may be a major contender to win the Classic despite running slowly this year and barely beating some very mediocre rivals that would be 100-1 in the Classic.

I'm not seeing where she isn't exactly where she was last year. Her last two preps last year were a head win against a bad horse at Del Mar and a very slow win in the Lady's Secret with a Beyer slower than the top 6 finishers in the Goodwood on the same day last year. Her form and figures are meaningless as she proved last year. Shirreffs is a complete ass clown for stating she should be HOY regardless of the Classic especially the way he scheduled this year on winning HOY simply based on what she did in the Classic. And for him to state that makes me agree with those stating can it make the connections any more unlikable. It's a disgrace for him to say that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

would you say the filly and mares are now the strength of racing the past decade or so?

I would say that it is hard to tell what the strength of American horses is. They don't run enough anymore. People are tricked into thinking a horse is better than they really are because of one or two races, usually against a watered down field. With the exception of the KY derby there is essentially no race that people won't duck.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I agree.

The connections of PE picked a 3 horse field with Gulch being the major competitor (not the best horse in the country) to take their single shot against boys. I don't criticize it because that's the way it has typically been done in the US when mares face older Grade 1 colts. They look for an easy spot here or there or don't do it at all.

Rachel took on the best 3YOs, but when it came time to take on older males she took on Bullsbay and Macho Again (the 4th string). Again, nothing to criticize.

Zenyatta is the only one that is held to the standard of having to run against the best males a lot of the time or get trashed. It's a double standard.

Zenyatta has run against "the best" males less than 5% of her career despite there being virtually no good males to speak of.

Hell Zenyatta has only run against the best filles a handful of times.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hell Zenyatta has only run against the best filles a handful of times.

Good one, we are talking about a horse who has won 9 straight grade 1 races, who knew her races were restricted to only bad horses.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Good one, we are talking about a horse who has won 9 straight grade 1 races, who knew her races were restricted to only bad horses.

So is this the, "they could have come to her house if they wanted" defense again?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Good one, we are talking about a horse who has won 9 straight grade 1 races, who knew her races were restricted to only bad horses.

She hasn't defeated a grade 1 winner in any of her races this year. So in her last 5 races she hasn't faced another horse that has won a grade 1.

Doesn't that shed a little bit of light on the quality of horses she is beating? They can call it a grade whatever, the competition still sucks.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Good one, we are talking about a horse who has won 9 straight grade 1 races, who knew her races were restricted to only bad horses.

Her connections seemed to know.

The designation of grade 1 doesn't necessarily mean that it is a tough field or even a good field. How anyone could argue that the fields she has beaten the majority of her career aren't decidedly sub par is beyond me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

She hasn't defeated a grade 1 winner in any of her races this year. So in her last 5 races she hasn't faced another horse that has won a grade 1.

Doesn't that shed a little bit of light on the quality of horses she is beating? They can call it a grade whatever, the competition still sucks.

How many graded winners total has she run against this year?

[Indian Charlie]

Girls beating the boys happens more on turf because it's tried about 10x more on turf here.