Gun Bow - maybe the fastest ever

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Gun Bow ran three races in 1964 in what I project the 130-to-133 range. He's the only horse so far, who I feel might have been faster than Spectacular Bid in a route.

Gun Bow was often lame at age 2 and didn't debut until age 3.

His 3yo season of 1963 consisted of single big performances followed by a terrible races next time out. He won a fast alw race by 10 lengths under Shoemaker - and was beaten 20 lengths in the Ohio Derby next time out. In his stakes debut against older males - he won the Narragansett Special by 13 lengths, he was 11th in the Gallant Fox at Aqueduct next time out.

He got a trainer change to E. A. Neloy for his 4-year-old debut and shipped to Southern Cal. He won the San Fernando Stakes by 5.5 lengths at 9/1 odds in his Cal debut.

* Instead of bouncing, he returned to win the Strub by 12 lengths with a projected 130 figure. The Strub was a field of 13 - and the 4th place finisher was beaten 22 lengths.

* Later that year, Gun Bow ran a projected 133 figure when he won a loaded Brooklyn Handicap by 12 lengths at 11/1 odds in track record time. The 2nd place finisher Olden Times had recentley won the Met Mile and was having a strong year.

The legendary Kelso was beaten 14 lengths. It was the only time in Kelso's 63 race career in which he was beaten by double digit lengths...and it came at 10fs on dirt. Kelso was a machine going long on dirt - and he responded by winning 4 of his five remaining starts that year - the lone defeat was a nose loss to Gun Bow in the Woodward.

* After his 133 in the Brooklyn - Gun Bow came back and won the Whitney by 10 lengths at 4/5 next time out - running a projected 130.

Gun Bow was 8-for-14 on dirt in 1964 - and ran strong 2nd's in the Man O' War and DC International in his two turf tries. It wasn't good enough though, Kelso was Horse of the Year. Kelso won five straight Horse of the Year crowns.

Gun Bow was simply born at the wrong time. He's the type of horse who might have thrived under a modern campaign.

In 1964, they asked this complete freak of nature to make 16 starts - all in top company (the San Fernando was the cheapest race he ran in all year) - they asked him to race at distances ranging from 7 furlongs on dirt in the Carter to 13 furlongs on turf in the Man O' War - they asked him to race on both coasts - and they asked him to carry as much as 132lbs. Because that's what you had to do if you wanted to try and dethrone the great Kelso.

Gun Bow isn't making any top 100 lists - but give that horse to Frankel or Shireffs or Dutrow or Pletcher ... let them micro-manage a five or six race a year path of least resistance campaign ... and if he runs his good race come early November - the cry might be that Gun Bow's the best ever.

A horse like Kelso - who won the Jockey Club Gold Cup five years in a row at margins ranging from 3.5 lengths to 10 lengths .. he was better off in that era. Gun Bow was built for the modern era.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Gun Bow isn't making any top 100 lists - but give that horse to Frankel or Shireffs ... let them micro-manage a five or six race a year path of least resistance campaign ... and if he runs his good race come early November - the cry might be that Gun Bow's the best ever.

FTFY

Another interesting post, but I don't think Pletcher and Dutrow come close to Frankel and Sheriffs in this regard. They try like hell, but not even close.

[keithting]

Great Stuff.

I don't know much about Gun Bow, but I'd be curious at how the career of Damascus compares. I believe that Damascus broke Gun Bow's track record at 1 1/4 miles at Aqueduct that stands to this day (1:59.20).

Particularly, of all races that I wish I could have seen in person, the 1967 Woodward Stakes at Aqueduct comes to mind. Damascus blew away Buckpasser and Dr. Fager to easily win by 10 lengths. I have read that the Damascus of 1967 was "a horse for the ages".

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by keithting

Great Stuff.

I don't know much about Gun Bow, but I'd be curious at how the career of Damascus compares.

I projected a 111 for Damascus in the Preakness. 116 for Dr. Fager in the Jersey Derby - both of those days I had a whole lot to work with.

I would bet those two both improved a good deal and lived in that mid to high 120 range as older horses. I just don't have enough to work with from 1968 to say that though.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

For Spectacular Bid - I have his 2yo top at 119 (LRL Futurity) - 3yo top at 127 (Malboro Cup) - he has five races at age 4 in a 127-to-132 range.

Len Friedman of the Ragozin Sheets: "In my opinion, for sheer ability and consistency over a period of time, Spectacular Bid is the best horse of all time. As a 4-year-old, he got down to a minus-3. Over a three-year period, nobody has done what he has."

[keithting]

Thanks. That really says alot about Gun Bow's racing career. Very impressive indeed.

[richard]

His pedigree...
http://www.pedigreequery.com/gun+bow
He was sent to Japan after 8 years at stud in USA, it states .
I find that Harlan's Holiday http://www.pedigreequery.com/harlans+holiday and
Menifee http://www.pedigreequery.com/menifee2 have Gun Bow in the first 5 gens of their pedigrees due to both having the same sire , Harlan . It appears that Menifee was sent to Japan also . So to cross Gun Bow HH is the only one left standing in the US .

How about some mares with Gun Bow ?

[hockey2315]

The great Pocus Hocus? But who cares? He wasn't a good sire.

[richard]

That mating would result in Gun Bow 4dx5s at the top of the line breeding chart.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The '64 Woodward where Gun Bow beat Kelso by a nose under a hand ride:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E29sSeEKyNo

By this point - they felt Gun Bow ran better when you didn't use the whip on him - no idea if that's the case or not - but that jockey had a lot of guts to stick to a hand ride after Kelso passed him... and he somehow came back on and nipped him. This was a great race.

[richard]

It doesn't get any better than that .
It's hardly possible to re-create a similar Gun Bow cross today (Hyperion tail male /Man O War tail male) . You cannot find a Hyperion tail mail line stallion of any note.

Kinda like the Gun Bows, Swaps, Forlis, Forgoes and Chateaugay's of the world were somehow wiped out after the 70s.

[Merlinsky]

The first photo finish picture I ever saw was the shot of the Woodward finish line in a book about Kelso. Whenever I see them now, I think about Gun Bow's nose win.