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#101
10-17-2006, 04:37 PM
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 ), I was most impressed with Showing Up. He was in the front pack the whole way, and still managed to fight gamely for 6th. He's one hell of a horse. A lot better than I originally thought.
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http://www.facebook.com/cajungator26 
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#102
10-17-2006, 04:38 PM
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#103
10-17-2006, 04:38 PM
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my pics aer on myspace if u wanna know
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#104
10-17-2006, 04:38 PM
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__________________
http://www.facebook.com/cajungator26
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#105
10-17-2006, 07:07 PM
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Good move Tagg. FC skipped the Juvy also because Tagg felt that FC was Derby material. It paid off. Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 10-17-2006 at 07:10 PM.
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#106
10-17-2006, 07:46 PM
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Good move? Definitely.
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#107
10-17-2006, 08:59 PM
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Runners that ran 1-2-3 in the races and then won a Classic Juvenile Tank's Prospect Spend a Buck Alysheba (2) Easy Goer Tabasco Cat (2) Timber Country Editor's Note Point Given (2) Afleet Alex (2) Remsen Pine Bluff (also ran in the BC) Go for Gin Thunder Gulch (2) Empire Maker That's 9-4 in number of horses and 13-5 in number of Classic races won. This doesn't even include horses that ran in the BC that didn't hit the board but still won a Classic the following year. U could add Danzig Connection, Bet Twice, Go and Go, Pine Bluff, Sea Hero, Lemon Drop Kid. It also doesn't include a horse like Cat Thief, who went on the win the BC Classic the next year. It also doesn't include horses like Blumin Affair and Tejano Run who also finished on the board in the Derby. And if u look and see how many horses from both races went on to win grade ones the next year, the clear advantage is even more lopsided in favor of the BC Juvenile. The point here is that for all this talk about a silly jinx (and it's hard to dispute the fact that no horse has won both yet), the BC Juvenile is a much better place to look for a 2yo that will go on to have success as a 3yo. Running in the BC does NOT mess up a 2yo for his 3yo season. If u've got a talented horse, run him. Skipping the BC because u think that's a better way to get to the Derby, a race six months down the line, is stupid. So much can and often does happen between now and then.
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#108
10-17-2006, 09:10 PM
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King Glorious
First of all, the BC jinx is silliness, I agree with you on that and it isn't even worth discussing.
However, on your other example....yer kidding...right? Considering the BC Juvenile in THE race for 2YOs while the Remsen is one of a few late season 2YO races, and not exactly one that horses point to en masse like the BC Juvenile, I would say the numbers you pointed out show, if anything, the Remsen to be a staggeringly solid race as far as pointing out TC contendors. Now, I don't believe in any of this, as theoretically all three of the major racetrack late season preps, the KY Jockey Club, the Hollywood Futurity and the Remsen should always be reasonable indicators of the next years TC races, but the comparison you chose does not support your point...if there really could even be a realistic one.
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#109
10-17-2006, 09:23 PM
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__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#110
10-17-2006, 09:24 PM
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I am going back to the original Champagne and run it all over again with the same odds. Rerun the race. There is one horse that I will take everytime. Everytime.
Pegasus Wind. A little racing luck. This horse wins. At 21-1. With Scat Daddy getting caught up a bit, NoBiz having a tougher race. Any sane person who understands numbers would take Pegasus Wind as a betting proposition. Cunningham gave it away again by throwing Albert the Great in. He has clearly taught horses how to read pedigrees... and his opinions of them. Holy snakes alive... you are a madman, but fun. Keep em coming.
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#111
10-17-2006, 09:27 PM
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This I completely agree with. That poster also seemed to be indicating that Tagg skipped the BC with Funny Cide as well when that was really just a matter of timing and experience more than anything else. Skipping the Juvenile because of the jinx is nonsensical.
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#112
10-17-2006, 09:29 PM
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What are you all arguing? That Tagg didn't specifically skip the BCJ with FC because he felt that it would have been too much for his talented two year old at the time? Well, he did, and it paid off. He is doing the exact same thing with Nobiz Like Shobiz.
Why do you think that so many horses are injured or aren't nearly as good after they come out of the BCJ? It is because it is so hard on them to ship them across the country, and put them in a race of distance with that many other quality horses at that age. They usually aren't mature enough physically or mentally to handle it. It ruins a lot of them. Tagg realizes this. The jinx itself is silly because horses such as Afleet Alex came so close to winning the Derby (this is where you misunderstood me and I didn't mean that Tagg was skipping the BCJ because of the BCJ/Derby jinx). One day that will be broken. However, the BCJ has ruined a ton of nice 2 year olds for the reasons stated above, and Tagg doesn't want to take the gamble. Not racing a nice 2 yo in the BCJ paid off last time, so he wants to follow the same path. Plus, it is only three weeks away, and he doesn't want to push his talented colt because he has a very bright future and wants to save him for next year. I can see that logic. Also, on a side note, I'm not so sure that Afleet Alex didn't have some kind of injury after running in the race which is why he started back so late in his three year old year. In addition, the reason that the Remsen has not produced nearly as many nice TC horses is because it is just after the BCJ. Most quit after the BC. You obviously don't have the quality of horses coming out of that race as you do in the BCJ. The BCJ is a Grade I and the Remsen is a Grade II. So, I don't see how you could even compare the number of horses who have done well in the TC from those two races based on these facts. Last edited by kentuckyrosesinmay : 10-17-2006 at 09:35 PM.
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#113
10-17-2006, 09:41 PM
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WHy are you guys arguing?
Its obvious that Tagg felt three weeks back and a ship is just too hard. Kudos too him. As far as King's assertion, any decent statistical whiz can show him the error of his contention, which is asinine at best. King, hello? The BC is a huge purse race that attracts horses from all over the country. The Remsen is a local race run at Aqu on the same weekend as the KY jockey club Cup at CD, and close enough to the Hollywood race that a horse most often doesnt race in both(Tocchet being the exception). You try and compare the two races, not realizing that you are showing an amazingly strong sample of NY based horses who actually went on to do things in the crown. You must realize that by limiting the sample to strictly Ny horses(or northeast) you cant accuartely compare it to the BC. Tagg is not dodging anything. Tagg is a smart and responsible horseman who is doing the right thing.
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#114
10-17-2006, 09:47 PM
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#115
10-17-2006, 09:54 PM
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Remsen Pine Bluff Go for Gin Thunder Gulch (2) Empire Maker Hollywood Futurity Snow Chief Ferdinand Alysheba (2) AP Indy Thunder Gulch (2) Real Quiet (2) Point Given (2) Giacomo U can take out Thunder Gulch since he ran in both races. # of TC races winners (total number of TC races won) Remsen-3 (3) Futurity-7 (10) If u looked at the horses from both races that didn't win a TC race but hit the board in one of them, u would add: Remsen Bluegrass Cat Futurity Stephan's Odyssey Best Pal Dance Floor Casual Lies That doesn't even include horses like Captain Steve, Millennium Wind, High Yield, Lion Heart, Temperate Sil, Brocco, and Afternoon Deelites, all of whom went on to win grade one races as 3yos after hitting the board in the Futurity. The Remsen claims Java Gold, Talinum, Skip Away, Coronado's Quest. So maybe if Tagg is skipping the BC because he's looking for a successful sophomore colt, he should skip the Remsen and come West. Of course, now that the Futurity will be run on JunkTrack, it's going to become an irrelevant race. A quick check shows that there have only been two horses from the KY Jockey Club to win a TC race over the same period (Editor's Note and Real Quiet) for a total of three wins.
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#116
10-17-2006, 09:59 PM
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I'm not sure what you're getting at. All I was saying was that the Remsen holds its own, along most likely with the KY Jockey Club and Hollywood Futurity, against the BC Juvenile considering people point much more for the BC Juvenile than any other race.
That's all. I never said, or cared, that one prep was better than another. As far as I'm concerned I only care about horses and the performances they gave, not where they gave them specifically.
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#117
10-17-2006, 10:06 PM
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__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#118
10-17-2006, 10:09 PM
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#119
10-17-2006, 10:10 PM
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__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#120
10-17-2006, 10:10 PM
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Linear Mode
