Another Brilliant Plan Out of WI

[Antitrust32]

and guess what... you actually CAN use your student ID to vote in Wisconsin, according to the new law. As long as the ID has not expired and you have to prove you are currently enrolled.

Who would have thought?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

So if a person is registered to vote in Milwaukee, but moves to Waukesha 60 days ago and has a utility bill in Waukesha now they could vote in both Milwaukee where they are currently registered and in Waukesha where they now have a utility bill in since they could register the day of the election. Someone else could be voting under someone else's name that is a registered voter as well if they knew their name and address since we don't require proof that they are the person they say they are.

And the occurance of the above is how much? Thousands? Millions?

That's why when you move, you have to register in your new precinct, in order to vote there. Otherwise - boom, there you are again with the provision ballot that isn't counted.

Amazing how those current laws work to keep voter fraud in the single digits year after year after year in Wisconsin!

Sad that the Koch Brothers Republican Governors Association has as it's stated goal making voting laws harder, so less people can readily vote - especially those Democratic-leaning ones.

Sad American citizens sign on to that discrimination.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Here's a thought... if you dont have an photo ID card, and you want to vote, how about go and get a photo ID? I mean they have a year to prepare for this. If voting is important to you, all you have to do is bring a valid form of identification.

I had to show it here in Florida, and the world didnt end. At least not yet.

But don't you get it then they can't cheat the system. Riot believes there is no fraud, but without a photo ID it is impossible to prove what person actually cast that vote so it is impossible to prove fraud. The same person that will be disenfranchised by the so called photo ID receives some sort of government entitlement whether it be medicare, medicaid, food stamps, social security etc which require much more work and effort than simply obtaining an ID

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Here's a thought... if you dont have an photo ID card, and you want to vote, how about go and get a photo ID? I mean they have a year to prepare for this. If voting is important to you, all you have to do is bring a valid form of identification.

I had to show it here in Florida, and the world didnt end. At least not yet.

You don't have a year to prepare if you move. And if Wisconsin changed the law so you can no longer get one on weekends before the election when you are not working.

[Antitrust32]

I really, really did not feel discriminated against the last time I voted and had to bust out the driver ID

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I really, really did not feel discriminated against the last time I voted and had to bust out the driver ID

Because you had one. I just showed my license last Tuesday to vote in the primary. But if I didn't have it with me, I would have been allowed to vote.

Wait until someone tells grandma who has lived in the same house for decades, who knows the poll workers, who has voted in that precinct her entire life that she can't vote this time because she stopped driving 2 years ago and her license is expired and no, she didn't need to go get a new non-driver photo ID so doesn't have anything.

The point is not the photo ID. The point is making it deliberately more difficult than it is now to be able to vote, by changing the voting laws to make them more restrictive, and the deliberate way it is being done is to disenfranchise the poor and non-whites, students, the elderly. It's disgusting.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

But don't you get it then they can't cheat the system.

How are poor people that don't have cars, and can't take a day off work to stand at the DMV, supposed to get one? How is grandma in the nursing home supposed to get one?

Riot believes there is no fraud, but without a photo ID it is impossible to prove what person actually cast that vote so it is impossible to prove fraud.

No. Stop misstating what I've said. I've said there is fraud, and it's so low it's in the single digits. It is entirely possible to prove who voted where (signatures and crosschecking now) which is [b]why voter fraud is so low.

The same person that will be disenfranchised by the so called photo ID receives some sort of government entitlement whether it be medicare, medicaid, food stamps, social security etc which require much more work and effort than simply obtaining an ID

Wow - your assumptive statement reveals a lot about why the law is being changed by the Republicans. Thanks for admitting that

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

and guess what... you actually CAN use your student ID to vote in Wisconsin, according to the new law. As long as the ID has not expired and you have to prove you are currently enrolled.

Who would have thought?

You mean except that there's more than what you said: the ID's don't have expiration dates or proof of current enrollment on them? and don't meet all the requirements of the current bill as signed today?

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/ar...?article=33379

Most significantly, the Assembly version would include university-issued student identification cards as an acceptable form of ID.

But there's a catch: the student IDs must include a current address, birth date, signature and expiration date -- requirements no college or university in Wisconsin currently meets.

"A lot of changes in this version are really steps in the wrong direction," says David Canon, a UW-Madison political science professor and election law expert.

According to Canon, the requirement of a current address for student IDs is "more onerous" than those for other IDs, like military identification, and creates a kind of double standard.

"If [bill author Rep. Stone's] stated purpose is to make driver's licenses and student IDs equivalent, he needs to makes them equivalent," says Canon. "It's not the same standard and it's a very significant difference between the two."

Additionally, Canon notes that UW campus IDs serve as room keys, making the rule that they contain an updated address dangerous, in terms of student security. And universities would have to bear the cost of issuing updated ID cards to students, which he says they are ill-equipped to handle.

Samuel Polstein, a UW-Madison student council member and a leader of student efforts opposing the bill, is also dissatisfied with the requirement.

Students will have to bring receipt as proof of paid tuition for the semester with them to the polling place.

Hey, nice! Have fun trying to vote in Wisconsin, students! Good luck with that. Thank the Republican party! We know most students vote Democratic for reasons exactly like this - too bad the Republicans made it so you can't vote! And that's why.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

You don't have a year to prepare if you move. And if Wisconsin changed the law so you can no longer get one on weekends before the election when you are not working.

The disenfranchised people you speak of usually don't have a job so Mon-Friday works just fine (poor and elderly). The responsible people who have an ID (which by the way is required by most employers) will find time to go to the DMV and change their address. So that is not an issue.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The disenfranchised people you speak of usually don't have a job so Mon-Friday works just fine (poor and elderly). The responsible people who have an ID (which by the way is required by most employers) will find time to go to the DMV and change their address. So that is not an issue.

Yes, we don't want those unemployed or irresponsible people voting! Who cares? That's "not an issue" to quote you. Even if this is America, and every adult over 18 not prohibited by a court is allowed to.

(Except the Republicans want to also add in those damn unemployed freeloaders who are irresponsible - no voting for them, no matter what the Constitution says! They usually vote Democratic, anyways ... )

At least you are honest about it, finally. That is exactly who the Republicans want to disinfranchise.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

How are poor people that don't have cars, and can't take a day off work to stand at the DMV, supposed to get one? How is grandma in the nursing home supposed to get one?


No. Stop misstating what I've said. I've said there is fraud, and it's so low it's in the single digits. It is entirely possible to prove who voted where (signatures and crosschecking now) which is [b]why voter fraud is so low.

How do you know it is so low? Do you really know that the person who said they were Bill Smith was actually Bill Smith?

Wow - your assumptive statement reveals a lot about why the law is being changed by the Republicans. Thanks for admitting that

Is not an assumption it is fact. If they work then they need to cash a check. In order to cash a check they need a photo ID (even at the check cashing place). To open a bank account they need a photo ID. The poor people that you speak of usually are on food stamps or receive medicaid. If they are not then they already need an ID to cash their pay check. The elderly receive social security, medicare or medicaid. You need a photo ID to do just about everything. So what is wrong with the facts

1) If they work they have a photo ID- required by employer and required to cash a check
2) If they don't work they need to have some income coming in thus they are on a government entitlement program
3) If they are elderly they either are independently wealthy or they are on a government entitlement (ie social security, medicare, etc.)

What am I missing

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Is not an assumption it is fact.

Yeah, the fact is that all the current Republican voting rights removal bills trying to be passed - and the Wisconsin bill signed today - are deliberately discriminatory, and everyone knows it.

If they work then they need to cash a check. In order to cash a check they need a photo ID (even at the check cashing place). To open a bank account they need a photo ID. The poor people that you speak of usually are on food stamps or receive medicaid. If they are not then they already need an ID to cash their pay check. The elderly receive social security, medicare or medicaid. You need a photo ID to do just about everything. So what is wrong with the facts

1) If they work they have a photo ID- required by employer and required to cash a check
2) If they don't work they need to have some income coming in thus they are on a government entitlement program
3) If they are elderly they either are independently wealthy or they are on a government entitlement (ie social security, medicare, etc.)

What am I missing

That the Constitution doesn't require any of the above to vote. You are. Fail.

"If they don't work they are on a government entitlement program" - are you for real?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, the fact is that all the current Republican voting rights removal bills trying to be passed - and the Wisconsin bill signed today - are deliberately discriminatory, and everyone knows it.

typical liberal response. Redirect as much as you can an avoid the facts pointed out above

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

typical liberal response. Redirect as much as you can an avoid the facts pointed out above

Nonsense. I'm a moderate conservative, and this bill is discriminatory bull.

Calling me a "typical liberal" may make you feel better about yourself, but doesn't change the fact that you think that poor people not being able to vote is "not an issue".

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nonsense. I'm a moderate conservative, and this bill is discriminatory bull.

Calling me a "typical liberal" may make you feel better about yourself, but doesn't change the fact that you think that poor people not being able to vote is "not an issue".

Can u explain to me how this bill disenfranchises voters since even factoring out all people ages 16and 17 there are more peoplein WI with a photo ID or drivers license then there are registered voters in WI?

There is nothing moderate or conservative in your political comments

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Can u explain to me how this bill disenfranchises voters since even factoring out all people ages 16and 17 there are more peoplein WI with a photo ID or drivers license then there are registered voters in WI?

You yourself proved my point with your casual lack of concern, your "not an issue" comment about those Americans that won't be able to survive the new Republican Voter Disinfranchisement Test.

Those are exactly the people the Republican party has targeted, and said they want to disinfranchise to help them win in 2012, and you are right with them: "not an issue" in your eyes.

There is nothing moderate or conservative in your political comments

LOL - of course there is. Fiscally conservative, socially responsible, anti-big government, anti-government interference in private lives. That's why I haven't voted Republican in two years, and why I won't for the foreseeable future. The current Republican party no longer represents any of that. I haven't changed. But the Republican party sure has.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

You yourself proved my point with your casual lack of concern, your "not an issue" comment about those Americans that won't be able to survive the new Republican Voter Disinfranchisement Test.

Those are exactly the people the Republican party has targeted, and said they want to disinfranchise to help them win in 2012, and you are right with them: "not an issue" in your eyes.



LOL - of course there is. Fiscally conservative, socially responsible, anti-big government, anti-government interference in private lives. That's why I haven't voted Republican in two years, and why I won't for the foreseeable future. The current Republican party no longer represents any of that. I haven't changed. But the Republican party sure has.

Please dispute facts with me. Who are we disenfranchising if there are more residents of WI with a photo ID than registered voters?(even eliminating 16 and 17yr olds) Must be easier to get a photo ID or drivers license than to register to vote.

Also if you are going to use the word the democrats like so much the least you could do is learn how to spell it

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Please dispute facts with me. Who are we disenfranchising if there are more residents of WI with a photo ID than registered voters?(even eliminating 16 and 17yr olds) Must be easier to get a photo ID or drivers license than to register to vote.

Also if you are going to use the word the democrats like so much the least you could do is learn how to spell it

The facts are that you support voter tests and voter suppression.

Wiphan posted: The disenfranchised people you speak of usually don't have a job so Mon-Friday works just fine (poor and elderly). The responsible people who have an ID (which by the way is required by most employers) will find time to go to the DMV and change their address. So that is not an issue.

So poor and elderly, and those "not responsible" in your eyes are "not an issue". Yeah, who cares if they can vote! Oh, and you have to have transportation to the DMV.

Yeah, that's really nice. Not what our Constitution says, but hey, it's only the poor, elderly, those you deem irresponsible, right?

Why do you ignore the fact that students will now have to bring a receipt with proof of paid tuition to the polling place with them? That not one school ID in Wisconsin fits the parameters of the new bill signed into law today?

Face it: the Republican Party has revealed themselves as the party of the elite and power-hungry. They don't give a damn about the citizens of this country. Even the "Tea Party" knows the GOP can't accomplish anything. They just lost the NY 26th. They now are only 50-50 to even hold onto the House in 2012. They have moved so far to the right, they've embraced the people literally dragging them off the political landscape. Please, go with them, if that's what you want. Enjoy the political exile, and take Republican Voter Suppression with you.

And let's not forget those poor victims of the tornadoes - who won't get their emergency aid appropriations bill signed until Eric Cantor gets the political budget concessions he wants. And he wasn't even embarrassed to say it in public. Yeah, hell of a party, those Republicans have become. Ronald Reagan wouldn't even pass their "purity test" today as a candidate.

[Danzig]

i guess if you want to view this as a bad thing, than it's making it more difficult to vote. or, you could think that maybe they're just making it difficult for non citizens to vote.
you have to be 18 to vote, most people start driving, and thus have a drivers license, at 16.
and if you don't drive, there are state id cards. sorry, don't see the big issue here.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess if you want to view this as a bad thing, than it's making it more difficult to vote. or, you could think that maybe they're just making it difficult for non citizens to vote.
you have to be 18 to vote, most people start driving, and thus have a drivers license, at 16.
and if you don't drive, there are state id cards. sorry, don't see the big issue here.

Read the current law and tell me how an out-of-state student in Wisconsin (living there for 4 years including summers on-campus, with no car) will be able to vote - including timeline for registration and ID and tuition proof requirements.

Then tell me why Wiphan isn't held to the same standards.

Then tell me why different standards, applied to different voters, are legal and Constitutional.


Wisconsin just passed the most restrictive voting eligibility law in the country. I can't wait until it's declared unconstitutional under current law.

And that is the anti-big government, anti-government takeover, anti-discrimination, pure libertarian position <g>