unions killing jobs...

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/op...ml?ref=opinion

[Clip-Clop]

These people are out of their fricking minds. Period.

[joeydb]

I didn't think this was news.

I accept "unions killing jobs" as an axiom, much in the same way that light has a constant speed and gravity causes the same acceleration regardless of object mass.

It's just how it works. The unions, and the Democrats, can't help themselves.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I accept "unions killing jobs" as an axiom, much in the same way that light has a constant speed and gravity causes the same acceleration regardless of object mass.

Except "unions killing jobs" as an absolute axiom doesn't stand up to routine scientific proofs. Just sayin', you know, if you are going to form your opinions via truth and objectivity <g>

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Except "unions killing jobs" as an absolute axiom doesn't stand up to routine scientific proofs. Just sayin', you know, if you are going to form your opinions via truth and objectivity <g>

Ok unions killing non-union jobs? I guess since you cant knock the source of this piece you are going to try to confuse people with...science? How anyone can claim that they were once a card carrying member of the GOP and yet rush to the defense of unions on every occasion is puzzling because unlike religious beliefs or social issues on which the GOP may have shifted to the right in recent years, they have long been in opposition (for the most part correctly) of the politicalization and destructive power of unions.

Do you support the Boeing employees union position in this case?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok unions killing non-union jobs? I guess since you cant knock the source of this piece you are going to try to confuse people with...science?

It's an opinion piece. I disagree with much of it. Various unions have done great things for workers over the years.

Joey brought up science, not me. Thus he's outlined the parameters of his argument. Not me.

How anyone can claim that they were once a card carrying member of the GOP and yet rush to the defense of unions on every occasion is puzzling because unlike religious beliefs or social issues on which the GOP may have shifted to the right in recent years, they have long been in opposition (for the most part correctly) of the politicalization and destructive power of unions.

Some people constantly reflect, learn and change their minds over time based upon new information.

And I do not "rush to the defense of unions", I rush to the defense of the right to unionize. I will always fight against union-busting.

A rather significant nuance. I have personal experience with seeing union members make less money and gain less benefits, from an employer, than non-union members. It's not always best to be in a union. But it's not always terrible, for either the union or the employer. Unions have given us weekends, 8 hour days, and minimum wage and job safety protections, and child labor laws. All great things. Unions have helped make this country great.

The current overt demonization of unions, in an attempt for financial gain for another party, is disgusting, in my view, a terrible treatment of those that worked their lives for this country. A terrible treatment of steelworkers, airline pilots (Reagan started this "demonize unions" ****), schoolteachers, firefighters, policement, electricians, carpenters ....

Do you support the Boeing employees union position in this case?

No I do not. And it's a little more complicated than the singular view presented in this opinion piece.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's an opinion piece. I disagree with much of it. Various unions have done great things for workers over the years.

Joey brought up science, not me. Thus he's outlined the parameters of his argument. Not me.



Some people constantly reflect, learn and change their minds over time based upon new information.

And I do not "rush to the defense of unions", I rush to the defense of the right to unionize.

A rather significant nuance.



No I do not. And it's a little more complicated than the singular view presented in this opinion piece.

fair enough

[richard]

Public unions should be outlawed. They just protect the incompetent, politically connected, lazy, abusive, etc. They are a waste of taxpayer money and they are obsolete.

[clyde]

Richard....shut up.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by richard

Public unions should be outlawed. They just protect the incompetent, politically connected, lazy, abusive, etc. They are a waste of taxpayer money and they are obsolete.

you're just jealous cause you have no connections and don't have a nice cushy good paying job. peasant.

[Cannon Shell]

http://news.yahoo.com/afl-cio-seeks-...183549227.html



"Many union leaders are frustrated that their money has not bought more meaningful support for the union agenda in Congress"

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://news.yahoo.com/afl-cio-seeks-...183549227.html



"Many union leaders are frustrated that their money has not bought more meaningful support for the union agenda in Congress"

They're crooks, but they're honest!

[dino]

I'm a non union worker at a union shop and before anyone judges unions they need to walk a day in my shoes at work. I'm surrounded by overpaid union workers that expect the world in salary and benefits yet haven't done an honest days work in years. On the average I would say your typical worker where I work makes 90K, has the best benefits I have ever seen, can retire at 78% pay at 55 and does maybe 5 hours of actual work a week. Not a bad gig if you can get it.
But these are the type of people that voted for Obama because he is the king of the "Free Ride Party" and I can tell you first hand that just about every union worker at my work voted for him and plan to do the same next election.

[Antitrust32]

damn dino. you got me wanting to join a union!

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dino

I'm a non union worker at a union shop and before anyone judges unions they need to walk a day in my shoes at work. I'm surrounded by overpaid union workers that expect the world in salary and benefits yet haven't done an honest days work in years. On the average I would say your typical worker where I work makes 90K, has the best benefits I have ever seen, can retire at 78% pay at 55 and does maybe 5 hours of actual work a week. Not a bad gig if you can get it.
But these are the type of people that voted for Obama because he is the king of the "Free Ride Party" and I can tell you first hand that just about every union worker at my work voted for him and plan to do the same next election.

I would expect eventually you may be asked if you'd like to join this union. Would you turn it down?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by clyde

Richard....shut up.

...or the union goons will be knocking on your door.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dino

I'm a non union worker at a union shop and before anyone judges unions they need to walk a day in my shoes at work. I'm surrounded by overpaid union workers that expect the world in salary and benefits yet haven't done an honest days work in years. On the average I would say your typical worker where I work makes 90K, has the best benefits I have ever seen, can retire at 78% pay at 55 and does maybe 5 hours of actual work a week. Not a bad gig if you can get it.

Funny, in many other first world countries, every worker gets benefits like that.

It's called, "normal".

I laugh at the demonization of unions, by people that hardly mentioned them a year ago <g>

Oh, well, when the demonization of the Muslim Kenyan Non-Citizen Black President has been disproved, and the demonization of "death panel health care" has been disproved, you have to go with something new. Last year the Koch Brothers and the RGA and ALEC decided it would be unions, and passed out the talking points sheets at the annual convention for the governors to initiate at the state level. Politics power grabs. So it goes. GOP-TV (Faux News) got the memo, too, and started in training their listeners that unions are filled with "evil thugs". Those kindergarten teachers and 9-11 NY firefighters, yeah, those thugs! <g>

The GOP has always been good at messaging. Hell, Rupert Murdoch supported Obama, but Roger Ailes had a hissy fit of hate, and was making so much money for Rupert, he let Ailes run with the Obama-hate on Faux. The Tea Party is causing the regular GOP no end of pain, as the TP (formed by GOP operatives) got out of control and talk the talk, but fail to vote the vote the right way in Congress, but the GOP is taking them down one by one and regaining control (Rove against Perry and Bachmann, for example). You need compliance in the underlings to survive in the current GOP theocracy. The power elite aren't giving up any of it, especially to a bunch of fools who don't believe in climate change or evolution.

[Calzone Lord]

Is there a union for people who post on horse racing boards?

If so, what are the benefits you get?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Is there a union for people who post on horse racing boards?

It's the same local you belong to, with the troll union.

[Calzone Lord]