Point Given

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

As if it matters now, he's two absolutely atrocious rides from Ramon away from being the all-time money winner.

Had he got a perfect trip in that $10 million purse race -- how do you know he would have passed that Gloria De Campeo horse that won? He hangs.

Gloria De Campeo was 2nd by like 12 lengths to Well Armed the prior year... on good old dirt.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

GP should be in the hall of fame for making you 7500 at my expense!

Well, more like 6k adjusted, but still.

I forget how lucky you can be sometimes.

Forgetting the contest --- I probably have made more than 6K just backwheeling Gio Ponti. He's kind of a favorite horse of mine.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

That was in Cali. I remember that. She was around 6-5 and I think he was 3-1. Not a huge upset.

He was 5-to-1 and Ventura was 4-to-5.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

He faced very good 3yo competiton -- races like the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers are among the most prized of the Grade 1's by owners.

I've done this before but here goes...

Crafty CT
I Love Silver
Palmiero
Cherokee Kim
Jamaican Rum
Bank Street
Indy Lead
Skip to the Stone
Silvertongue Fox
Gold Trader
Millennium Wind
Golden Ticket
Holiday Thunder
The Goo
AP Valentine
Congaree
Dollar Bill
Griffinite
Monarchos
Marciano
Bay Eagle
Percy Hope
Richly Blended
Mr. John
Invisible Ink
Buckle Down Ben
Thunder Blitz
Balto Star
Dr Greenfield
Touch Tone
Hero's Tribute
Burning Roma
E Dubai
Free of Love
Scorpion
Volponi
Hadrian's Wall
Harrisand

Quite the group. He was the best 3YO that year, but immortalized as one of the best all time, having faced them only at 3 (I included some of his 2YO competition too)...no thanks. I'll give you Congaree, Monarchos (just because of the Derby), Balto Star (for later turf success), and Volponi (for a race) as competition he faced when he won that would be considered "very good."

If turf racing is eschewed in this country for speed, fine, that's our own fault - but there are few horses racing in this decade that have been more successful and more consistent than Gio Ponti - consistency and success commensurate with a Hall of Fame, perhaps even one from an older era.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Had he got a perfect trip in that $10 million purse race -- how do you know he would have passed that Gloria De Campeo horse that won? He hangs.

Gloria De Campeo was 2nd by like 12 lengths to Well Armed the prior year... on good old dirt.

Poorly judged pace in 2010 and worse, in 2011...when the winning move is being made outside of Ramon down the backside and he is strangling his horse back off a 53.4 half mile.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Poorly judged pace in 2010 and worse, in 2011...when the winning move is being made outside of Ramon down the backside and he is strangling his horse back off a 53.4 half mile.

I think the strangle hold is a product of Ramon doubting he can get 10f. Feeling he has to time that move just right.

[Alabama Stakes]

point given would have won the triple crown if not for Gary Stevens rushing him up into that blistering pace. he drowned most fields he faced and looked like he wasn't even trying while doing it.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

If turf racing is eschewed in this country for speed, fine, that's our own fault - but there are few horses racing in this decade that have been more successful and more consistent than Gio Ponti - consistency and success commensurate with a Hall of Fame, perhaps even one from an older era.

Turf racing is eschewed because dirt racing is far more important.

Who is the last Horse of the Year to ever once run in American turf race? I think Charismatic in 1999... and he only tried turf as a last resort before they ran him for a claiming tag.

Royal Delta has turf in her pedigree -- think she's worth over $8 million if Mott tires to make a turf horse out of her? She hasn't even tried turf. A lot of the good ones never try turf.

[citycat]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Just read his stud fee was jumped from $7500 to 20k.

Isn't Coil his only useful runner going lately?

That is an odd thing for his fee to jump up that much.

Cant seem to find an article on that? Can you tell me where you read that?

[GPK]

http://www.drf.com/news/three-chimne...stud-fee-20000

Originally Posted by citycat

Cant seem to find an article on that? Can you tell me where you read that?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by GPK

http://www.drf.com/news/three-chimne...stud-fee-20000

I wonder what the thinking behind the fee raise is. Does Three Chimneys expect everyone else to blindly follow this unidentified, private investor's lead? Or are they simply trying to eliminate the lower-end mares he typically gets?

Other question is, what fee does the private investor have to pay? If I brought 20+ quality mares to an inexpensive stallion like Point Given, I certainly wouldn't expect the farm to ask me to pay nearly 3 times his stud fee in response.

Of course, you also have Kitten's Joy's stud fee doubled. Now Ken Ramsey can own all the Kitten's Joys out there. Banned's success for Glen Hill must have really got on his nerves. I hope he runs out of family members soon so that those horses can get some proper names.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Turf racing is eschewed because dirt racing is far more important.

Who is the last Horse of the Year to ever once run in American turf race? I think Charismatic in 1999... and he only tried turf as a last resort before they ran him for a claiming tag.

Royal Delta has turf in her pedigree -- think she's worth over $8 million if Mott tires to make a turf horse out of her? She hasn't even tried turf. A lot of the good ones never try turf.

Curlin

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Of course, you also have Kitten's Joy's stud fee doubled. Now Ken Ramsey can own all the Kitten's Joys out there. Banned's success for Glen Hill must have really got on his nerves. I hope he runs out of family members soon so that those horses can get some proper names.

The dam of Banned, Cardinalli, in foal to Kitten's Joy, was an RNA at $395K at FT-November. Incredible, given her rather spotty produce record (2007 foal died and she was not pregnant in 2009 or 2011).

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I wonder what the thinking behind the fee raise is. Does Three Chimneys expect everyone else to blindly follow this unidentified, private investor's lead? Or are they simply trying to eliminate the lower-end mares he typically gets?

I don't get it either. I fail to see how a private investor's interest in the horse in 2012 is going to help someone breeding to Point Given in 2012, unless he is not only going to breed to the stallion but also support the stallion when his offspring hit the sales ring (like the Sheikh does with the Darley stallions). Still, it'd be a reach.

[Indian Charlie]

I read a different article and that article did not mention this private guy.

At least now there is a glimmer of sense to it.

[citycat]

Thanks a ton for the link. I have been tryin to get one of my mares to him but Three Chimneys will hardly ever work off the book price. Kinda turned me off on them but I still wanted to get a cover from him. No way I am touchin for 20K

thanks again