The other winning streak

[my miss storm cat]

A tiny story about a little horse at a small racetrack.

Dr. Seuss once wrote "a person's a person no matter how small".

The same can be said for Hayley... especially before anyone turns this into something it is not.

It's a nice win record for a local Zia Park girl... no one is calling her the next Citation.

http://www.drf.com/news/zia-park-hay...a-park-distaff

[my miss storm cat]

... and another small winning streak for an even smaller name...

Six in a row for Ted's Folly...

http://www.drf.com/news/remington-te...raight-victory

[cal828]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

... and another small winning streak for an even smaller name...

Six in a row for Ted's Folly...

http://www.drf.com/news/remington-te...raight-victory

Caleb's Posse came out of that race last year. And then went on to Oaklawn. He beat me every time he ran. If I bet him, he lost. If I bet against him, he won. Finally able to bet him right in King's Bishop. Not sure where Ted's Folly's connections are taking him, but maybe I'll get see him at Oaklawn. Maybe he'll spare me some of the anguish that Caleb's posse gave me, but where's the fun in that?

[cmorioles]

Shouldn't Awesome Feather get a mention?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Shouldn't Awesome Feather get a mention?

I think Star Guitar has won 7 in a row, too.

He should be close to the modern day, contemporary, for all time, post-Civil War, Southern United States, Louisiana-bred win record by now.

[Calzone Lord]

When exactly is the start of the "modern era" in horse racing?

I keep hearing the phrase modern era ... but no one seems to define it.

The Daily Racing Form was first published in 1896 ... and all the old past performances and result charts still exist from April 1st 1896 onward at the Keeneland Library. Is that the cut off?

Sir Barton won the first triple crown and Man O' War started racing in 1919 ... is that the cut off?

I can't really think of anything else that would seperate the modern era from the pre modern era.

My best guess would be the start of the modern era in horse racing would be either April 1st 1896 or Jan 1st 1919.

Anyone else with an idea?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think Star Guitar has won 7 in a row, too.

He should be close to the modern day, contemporary, for all time, post-Civil War, Southern United States, Louisiana-bred win record by now.

You would think so, but you have to exclude females because of Hallowed Dreams. Even so, it is a very prestigious record.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

When exactly is the start of the "modern era" in horse racing?

I keep hearing the phrase modern era ... but no one seems to define it.

The Daily Racing Form was first published in 1896 ... and all the old past performances and result charts still exist from April 1st 1896 onward at the Keeneland Library. Is that the cut off?

Sir Barton won the first triple crown and Man O' War started racing in 1919 ... is that the cut off?

I can't really think of anything else that would seperate the modern era from the pre modern era.

My best guess would be the start of the modern era in horse racing would be either April 1st 1896 or Jan 1st 1919.

Anyone else with an idea?

Apparently it is whatever makes the best story.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

... and another small winning streak for an even smaller name...

Six in a row for Ted's Folly...

http://www.drf.com/news/remington-te...raight-victory

Originally Posted by cal828

Caleb's Posse came out of that race last year. And then went on to Oaklawn. He beat me every time he ran. If I bet him, he lost. If I bet against him, he won. Finally able to bet him right in King's Bishop. Not sure where Ted's Folly's connections are taking him, but maybe I'll get see him at Oaklawn. Maybe he'll spare me some of the anguish that Caleb's posse gave me, but where's the fun in that?

Had trainer Wilson Brown on ATR this morning and he was terrific. Forgot that he trained It'sallinthechase!

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Apparently it is whatever makes the best story.

That's pretty much what I've concluded.

Here is what I found regarding the definition of the "modern era" in baseball:

By baseball convention the "Modern Era" began in 1900, roughly when the rules and conventions were stabilizing. The American League was founded in that year. It was also the first year where home plate acquired its current pentagon shape.

The strike zone was only defined in 1887, and the four ball walk appeared 2 years later. In 1893 the pitcher's mound was moved to its current location of 60 feet, 6 inches from home plate.

So until very late in the 19th Century, the games rules were undergoing very significant changes, and Major League Baseball thus does not recognize records and statistics compiled in that era to be comparable to the statistics achieved today.

1900 was determined to be a simple, clean date to separate between baseball's formative years, and the game whose rules have been remarkably stable since then.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

When exactly is the start of the "modern era" in horse racing?

I keep hearing the phrase modern era ... but no one seems to define it.

My best guess would be the start of the modern era in horse racing would be either April 1st 1896 or Jan 1st 1919.

Anyone else with an idea?

As far as the people using "modern era" in conjunction with Rapid Redux's streak, clearly, the modern era started after 1913.

The "modern era" is an idea that remains in flux, usually changing in order to serve the needs of whatever BS the press and the powers that be want to feed us. No one wants to hear about the "second to do this or that". They want to read about the "first". And yet, history always repeats itself. Thus, the modern era always begins just after the point where the subject being discussed was last manifest.

Turf writers want to compare these state-breds and nickel claimers to the great Citation, not some turn-of-the-century plough horse who ran every 3 days until he was a 12 year old. Citation is the go-to stock horse for all their record-chasing needs.

Ironically, I'm not so sure anyone not a die-hard fan (or an octogenarian) would even know who Citation was in this day and age. Recently, I referred to Alysheba and Ferdinand to someone and I got the response, "Before my time". Based on that, the modern era may have rebooted once again, this time with Smarty Jones being the first all-timer. Zenyatta, obviously, the second.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Apparently it is whatever makes the best story.

Holy sh!t, that's what I was trying to say and it took me about a thousand words. Even had to resort to a Zenyatta reference.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Shouldn't Awesome Feather get a mention?

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think Star Guitar has won 7 in a row, too.

He should be close to the modern day, contemporary, for all time, post-Civil War, Southern United States, Louisiana-bred win record by now.

The point of this thread was really for the complete unknowns... the smallest of the small names... I guess I didn't make that clear at all and assumed everyone had esp. Sorry.

RR is a big gun compared to the types I had in mind when I started this but sure we can add the big(ger) names too.

Originally Posted by Kasept

Had trainer Wilson Brown on ATR this morning and he was terrific. Forgot that he trained It'sallinthechase!

Cool!

Originally Posted by cal828

Caleb's Posse came out of that race last year. And then went on to Oaklawn. He beat me every time he ran. If I bet him, he lost. If I bet against him, he won. Finally able to bet him right in King's Bishop. Not sure where Ted's Folly's connections are taking him, but maybe I'll get see him at Oaklawn. Maybe he'll spare me some of the anguish that Caleb's posse gave me, but where's the fun in that?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

The point of this thread was really for the complete unknowns... the smallest of the small names... I guess I didn't make that clear at all and assumed everyone had esp. Sorry.

RR is a big gun compared to the types I had in mind when I started this but sure we can add the big(ger) names too.

The smallest of the small don't run for $300k and $55k purses. Rapid Redux doesn't run for anything close to that.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The smallest of the small don't run for $300k and $55k purses. Rapid Redux doesn't run for anything close to that.

Fair enough.

The names... I doubt they're well known but you're right, of course.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

When exactly is the start of the "modern era" in horse racing?

I keep hearing the phrase modern era ... but no one seems to define it.

The Daily Racing Form was first published in 1896 ... and all the old past performances and result charts still exist from April 1st 1896 onward at the Keeneland Library. Is that the cut off?

Sir Barton won the first triple crown and Man O' War started racing in 1919 ... is that the cut off?

I can't really think of anything else that would seperate the modern era from the pre modern era.

My best guess would be the start of the modern era in horse racing would be either April 1st 1896 or Jan 1st 1919.

Anyone else with an idea?

Yes. When they changed the extant American Thoroughbred bloodstock, by massive European importations. After the Depression. Maybe a little earlier. But starting with the big farms of the 1930's - 1940's, with their Euro imported stallions.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes. When they changed the extant American Thoroughbred bloodstock, by massive European importations. After the Depression. Maybe a little earlier. But starting with the big farms of the 1930's - 1940's, with their Euro imported stallions.

Since Man O' War is usually included, along with Sir Barton, I'm not sure that is going to fly.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Since Man O' War is usually included, along with Sir Barton, I'm not sure that is going to fly.

Yes, they are usually included in "modern era". I just wanted to point out that there was indeed a pretty significant change in the American Thoroughbred world, in the genetic composition of the bloodstock itself, that resulted in what we describe as the "modern Thoroughbred".

Good example: Blenheim

From TB Pedigree:
Owner: A Syndicate in U.S.
Breeder: Lord Carnarvon
Winnings: 10 Starts: 5 - 3 - 0, £ 14,533 ($73,067)

1929: 1st New S. (ENG), Hopeful S. (ENG), Manton Plate (ENG), Speedy Plate (ENG)
2nd Middle Park S. (ENG), Champagne S. (ENG)
AT 3: Won Derby S. (ENG) - only start at 3

Won First Epsom Derby for HH Aga Khan III, as an 18-to-1 outsider, beating the Aga Khan's Rustom Pasha who was the second favourite at 9-to-2. Entered stud in 1931. Imported to USA (1937). Died 1958, buried at Claiborne Farm. Properly US-registered as "Blenheim II".

And from Wiki, basic TB history, one of the reasons why imports took off in the US (so we could sell them back). But that changed our bloodlines,and the look of the horse:

Soon after the start of the 20th century, fears that the English races would be overrun with American-bred Thoroughbreds because of the closing of US racetracks in the early 1910s, led to the Jersey Act of 1913.[36] It prohibited the registration of any horse in the [ English ] General Stud Book (GSB) if they could not show that every ancestor traced to the GSB. This excluded most American-bred horses, because the 100-year gap between the founding of the GSB and the American Stud Book meant that most American-bred horses possessed at least one or two crosses to horses not registered in the GSB. The act was not repealed until 1949, after which a horse was only required to show that all its ancestors to the ninth generation were registered in a recognized Stud Book. Many felt that the Jersey Act hampered the development of the British Thoroughbred by preventing breeders in the United Kingdom from using new bloodlines developed outside the British Isles.

So we imported those horses here, so we could interbred them, and sell them back internationally. The reinfusion of the Euro lines with the extant American lines changed the racehorse into the modern physical and genetic specimen we are most familiar with.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes. When they changed the extant American Thoroughbred bloodstock, by massive European importations. After the Depression. Maybe a little earlier. But starting with the big farms of the 1930's - 1940's, with their Euro imported stallions.

It's kind of tricky to put an exact date or year to something like that.

The foal crop in 1904 -- right before things started to get bad for racing purse money - was 3,990... and a lot of bloodstock had been imported.

40 years later -- the foal crop was just 5,650 in 1944.

It wasn't really until the 1960's when you started to see a massive production of foals.

I read a few interesting columns a while ago written by Vosburgh about the stock farms in Kentucky during the early 1920's.

He wrote in great detail about the big ones of the day such as Elmendorf Stud, Xalapa, Claibourne, Faraway, Hinata, The Nursery Stud, The Whitney and Idle Hour, Woodburn and Hartland.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

It's kind of tricky to put an exact date or year to something like that.

The foal crop in 1904 -- right before things started to get bad for racing purse money - was 3,990... and a lot of bloodstock had been imported.

40 years later -- the foal crop was just 5,650 in 1944.

It wasn't really until the 1960's when you started to see a massive production of foals.

I read a few interesting columns a while ago written by Vosburgh about the stock farms in Kentucky during the early 1920's.

He wrote in great detail about the big ones of the day such as Elmendorf Stud, Xalapa, Claibourne, Faraway, Hinata, The Nursery Stud, The Whitney and Idle Hour, Woodburn and Hartland.

Yes, you're right about the date. I do think you've narrowed it down to the end of racing in the US - it's sorta before and after that date: 1910, 1913 or so.

Don't forget two world wars had an impact on the industry, too.

You might enjoy two volumes that I think Bloodhorse released, about Thoroughbred Breeders in the early 1900's, the big farm and big owners. But it's pretty dry stuff, mostly bloodlines, stallions and mares on their farms and who they imported, who they traded with, who they bred to. But it traces those origins here.

I think you can charge much of the huge rise in foal crops in the 1960's to actions like Leslie Combs (Spendthrift) creating massive syndicates. He really put the "commercial" in horse breeding.