Derby Day Pools

[Thunder Gulch]

Call me what you may, but at Travis says, I'm not involved in the supers for these contentious 14 horse fields with dollar minimums unless I'm pooling with friends. I'd rather just bet $100 to win than try to get skinny.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Disagree. I like the fact the minimums are higher on this big day. Encourages players to go for gusto with some monster scores possible from $1 super plays.

I think it's like that to discourage people from holding up betting lines with a bunch of 10cent super part-wheels.

[Calzone Lord]

I agree with Port Conway Lane.

Further -- 10-cent supers help take eliminate the tax man (signers are greatly reduced and withholding becomes extremely rare)

If I want a superfecta combo for $1 ... I'll play it ten times for a dime.

The only people who should be opposed to cheap minimums in exotics are the people at the track who get 10% for cashing other peoples signers.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I think it's like that to discourage people from holding up betting lines with a bunch of 10cent super part-wheels.

Thats the fact, and it also explains why the Churchill HC had more in it than the Woodford. By that point of the day, you're at a 30 minute line, and many people are putting in all their bets through the Derby, which slows it further. Add to that the fact that most of the tellers are one day temps, you'd never get out of there if people start wheeling a ton of combos on supers. It's hard enough to get an Exacta ticket correct.

[Alan07]

Churchill for the longest time (up until the mid 80's) did not offer Daily Double wagers on Derby day for the exact same reason as the Trifecta and Superfecta are $1 these two days, they didn't want people stuck at the windows for the longest time.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by jms62

I'm for getting rid of dime supers and .50 P4's all-together. Can anyone truly say that their ROI on P4's has improved since they have gone the .50 route? People spend just as much playing .50 as they would a dollar get more combinations and IMLHO severly watered down payouts. I wish the industry or DRF would publish a study of .50 P4's. I do realize I won't get any support on my position but that is how I see it.

I couldn't disagree more.
I think the payoffs take a tiny hit with the Trifecta's but, it is a fair trade off to help avoid taxable tickets.

I can't speak for everyone but, I have hit at least three Pick 4's this year that I would have never had if the bet had been at a $1 minimum. They all paid me over four figures. I have also avoided paying taxes in 5 or 6 other situations by using multiple fifty cent punches on the same ticket.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I agree with Port Conway Lane.

Further -- 10-cent supers help take eliminate the tax man (signers are greatly reduced and withholding becomes extremely rare)

If I want a superfecta combo for $1 ... I'll play it ten times for a dime.

The only people who should be opposed to cheap minimums in exotics are the people at the track who get 10% for cashing other peoples signers.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I couldn't disagree more.
I think the payoffs take a tiny hit with the Trifecta's but, it is a fair trade off to help avoid taxable tickets.

I can't speak for everyone but, I have hit at least three Pick 4's this year that I would have never had if the bet had been at a $1 minimum. They all paid me over four figures. I have also avoided paying taxes in 5 or 6 other situations by using multiple fifty cent punches on the same ticket.

Thanks for making my point. Many people hitting who wouldn't be hitting for a buck hence the depressed payouts. Your 4 figure scores could have been a 5 figure score a few years back. Of course neither of us have the stats to backup our position so you have your opinion and I have mine which is certainly in the minority on this board; as a matter of fact I think I stand alone on this issue. To those that say simply bet your .50 ticket multiple times I just chuckle. Having said that maybe the solution is what appears to be happening at Belmont today... 4 12+ horse fields in the late P4...

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by jms62

Thanks for making my point. Many people hitting who wouldn't be hitting for a buck hence the depressed payouts. Your 4 figure scores could have been a 5 figure score a few years back. Of course neither of us have the stats to backup our position so you have your opinion and I have mine which is certainly in the minority on this board; as a matter of fact I think I stand alone on this issue. To those that say simply bet your .50 ticket multiple times I just chuckle. Having said that maybe the solution is what appears to be happening at Belmont today... 4 12+ horse fields in the late P4...

Well it wouldn't have been a 5 figure score for me, because I would've never played a $200 ticket for a $1 minimum.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jms62

Thanks for making my point. Many people hitting who wouldn't be hitting for a buck hence the depressed payouts. Your 4 figure scores could have been a 5 figure score a few years back. Of course neither of us have the stats to backup our position so you have your opinion and I have mine which is certainly in the minority on this board; as a matter of fact I think I stand alone on this issue. To those that say simply bet your .50 ticket multiple times I just chuckle. Having said that maybe the solution is what appears to be happening at Belmont today... 4 12+ horse fields in the late P4...

In an era where pools of all types are shrinking, having more people involved is a good thing.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

In an era where pools of all types are shrinking, having more people involved is a good thing.

Do you think this has any impact on the big players exiting the game?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jms62

Do you think this has any impact on the big players exiting the game?

"Big players exiting the game" has FAR more to do with high, oppressive takeout than low minimums.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by jms62

Do you think this has any impact on the big players exiting the game?

Big players care about rebates, pool size and field size more than payoffs, because payoffs are relative.