The decade that keeps giving.......

[taxicab]

Horse Racing Royalty/First Ballot HOF Icons lining up:
Quite a list.
And there's still 3 more years to go......

AMERICAN PHAROAH........The King.
Arrogate(a couple more wins and in).
Beholder
California Chrome
Royal Delta
Songbird
Tepin
Wise Dan

Just missed the "A" list:
Animal Kingdom
Nyquist(poorly managed)
Shared Belief
Lady Eli(this could change with a big 2017).

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Horse Racing Royalty/First Ballot HOF Icons lining up:
Quite a list.
And there's still 3 more years to go......

AMERICAN PHAROAH........The King.
Arrogate(a couple more wins and in).
Beholder
California Chrome
Royal Delta
Songbird
Tepin
Wise Dan

Just missed the "A" list:
Animal Kingdom
Nyquist(poorly managed)
Shared Belief
Lady Eli(this could change with a big 2017).

Nyquist has never been above average, he is OK. He was OK winning the Juvy and OK in the Derby. And then fell apart. Comparing him to a horse like Animal Kingdom is unfair to AK.

[Easy Goer Otis]

On a day when Wise Dan set a track record of 1:31:78 in 2012 BC Turf mile, AK finished a fast closing second on a surface and distance that were not in his wheelhouse. His versatility makes him an "A" in my book.

Here's video of the race. AK passes 5 horses in stretch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy-PSInfWtw&t=4s

[10 pnt move up]

At this point I dont even think Baffert believes AP was a better horse than Arrogate.

Just for discussion, who was the best horse AP beat? Effinex?

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

At this point I dont even think Baffert believes AP was a better horse than Arrogate.

Just for discussion, who was the best horse AP beat? Effinex?

Ya American Pharoah sucked. He only won 8 grade 1 races including the triple crown which is easy along with a Breeders Cup romp with a simple 120 Beyer. Arrogate is a great horse but has more to prove.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Ya American Pharoah sucked. He only won 8 grade 1 races including the triple crown which is easy along with a Breeders Cup romp with a simple 120 Beyer. Arrogate is a great horse but has more to prove.

Sure, he is great...who said he sucked?

but its not like its a mountain between the two with on track accomplishments.

Also, like I said, AP never really had to look a really good horse in the eye and beat them. He was very very good.

Gun to my head, I take Arrogate to win with my life on the line. At 10 furlongs I think Arrogate is the best horse I have seen since 1992 when I really started watching racing. His Travers race is one of the best 5 races I have ever seen, and I highly doubt his track record will ever be broken.

[10 pnt move up]

Also, if the timing of this race is adjusted, and it probably will be on Timeform, the figure is going to be out of this world good.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Nyquist has never been above average, he is OK. He was OK winning the Juvy and OK in the Derby. And then fell apart. Comparing him to a horse like Animal Kingdom is unfair to AK.

I'd add Animal Kingdom to the "poorly managed" list.

(1) He was only entered in the Spiral Stakes as a back up when another Team Valor horse didn't make the field. The connections had no aspirations of racing him on dirt at that point.

(2) His Derby win was his first dirt race. While this might be mythologized as evidence of his greatness, in reality it just shows his connections were basically clueless with regards to his abilities.

(3) After he was injured in the Belmont with a fracture, Barry Irwin immediately mapped out a plan to make the 2012 Dubai World Cup, prior to surgery if I recall correctly. When you fit the horse to the racing calendar as opposed to fitting the calendar to the horse, you usually set yourself up for a disaster. Animal Kingdom started in a grass allowance and promptly fractured his pelvis soon thereafter. Back to the sidelines.

(4) His comeback race was the BC Mile on grass against Wise Dan. The horse finished second. Congrats. I guess his connections were taking a page out of Michael Dickinson's book. You know, where the horse runs once a year (or two). What was the purpose of that race? True, he demonstrated top class, but he didn't start again for 3 months. It served no purpose other than to add another notch on Wise Dan's post really.

(5) Returns in a Grade 1 on the grass without the benefit of a prep and gets beat by major Grade 1 turf horse Point of Entry.

(6) After his great Dubai win on Tapeta, where he defeated the ill-fated 7yo Red Cadeaux and the ill-fated Dullahan and the synthetic-hating Royal Delta, Irwin's master plan is to run at Royal Ascot, taking a page from Ken McPeek's book (which is in the independent reader section of your local bookstore). He is unceremoniously crushed by the unheralded Declaration of War who I think was coming off a Group 3 win on an all-weather track. Given his subsequent BC Classic effort, maybe Declaration of War should have been in the Dubai World Cup.

(7) The final nail in the coffin that proves the case is that despite his absolute smasher in the Kentucky Derby, Animal Kingdom never again started on the dirt following the Belmont, despite repeated comeback races.

And Irwin had the gall to write a book about this mess of a career.

[10 pnt move up]

I don't know who RolloTomasi is...but I am pretty sure he is in the hall of fame somewhere.

Shared Belief was better than CC

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Shared Belief was better than CC

Absolutely crushed he's not still with us. Chrome never would've run the table this year if Shared Belief were still around. Can you imagine if Smith had to choose between riding Shared Belief or Arrogate in the BC Classic? My God he's had an embarrassment of riches just in the last couple years. SB, Arrogate, Songbird...

I certainly consider SB "A list." The way people talked/talk about SB, it sounds like a first time ballot entry for him. It depends on who's up. Isn't it the top 4 vote getters human or equine? Could be the cause of human beings not making it in. Not sure what jockeys and trainers would be on deck that year. He died at the end of 2015 so is it HOF 2021 induction? I assumed so because Rachel Alexandra ended her career in 2010 and she went in during 2016. Five full calendar years right? Not an induction during the fifth year.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Absolutely crushed he's not still with us. Chrome never would've run the table this year if Shared Belief were still around. Can you imagine if Smith had to choose between riding Shared Belief or Arrogate in the BC Classic? My God he's had an embarrassment of riches just in the last couple years. SB, Arrogate, Songbird...

I certainly consider SB "A list." The way people talked/talk about SB, it sounds like a first time ballot entry for him. It depends on who's up. Isn't it the top 4 vote getters human or equine? Could be the cause of human beings not making it in. Not sure what jockeys and trainers would be on deck that year. He died at the end of 2015 so is it HOF 2021 induction? I assumed so because Rachel Alexandra ended her career in 2010 and she went in during 2016. Five full calendar years right? Not an induction during the fifth year.

I think it's five years from his last start, not his death. I could be wrong though.

[richard burch]

Horse name of The Year....

Allez Bien

by:
4 F O'reilly - Be Inspired
B L Nutt, N L Carroll, B P Quigley,

Australian mate!

[Alabama Stakes]

Is this code ? 1234 ?

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Ya American Pharoah sucked. He only won 8 grade 1 races including the triple crown which is easy along with a Breeders Cup romp with a simple 120 Beyer. Arrogate is a great horse but has more to prove.

I don't think he said AP sucked. He was more accomplished. But not by much at this point. He also was able to run in the Triple Crown. As for whos better. I was AP biggest fan and I don't think its even close. Arrogate is better and has been more brilliant. IMO AP had 2 monster races. The Monmouth race and the BC. Arrogate has 3, in a row.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

I don't think he said AP sucked. He was more accomplished. But not by much at this point. He also was able to run in the Triple Crown. As for whos better. I was AP biggest fan and I don't think its even close. Arrogate is better and has been more brilliant. IMO AP had 2 monster races. The Monmouth race and the BC. Arrogate has 3, in a row.

I don't know that we saw what AP was capable of doing, I think he had alot more upside left, which I am not convinced on Arrogate. That being said I think it's probably Arrogate which is the better of the two.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

I don't think he said AP sucked. He was more accomplished. But not by much at this point. He also was able to run in the Triple Crown. As for whos better. I was AP biggest fan and I don't think its even close. Arrogate is better and has been more brilliant. IMO AP had 2 monster races. The Monmouth race and the BC. Arrogate has 3, in a row.

The Belmont race was pretty solid too. Fast. AP is a horse I really would like to have seen run as 4 year old.