Prado

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah he had 18 mounts at Toga last summer and won 2 races. WOW!

banked almost 200k for those 2 wins.............not too bad huh

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You don't follow NY racing at all....do you?

Mike Smith has been absolutely horrendous since coming back from the West Coast and " Mike Smith off " has become virtually an automatic play. It's obvious you haven't seen him ride but you could have at least looked at his stats. I'll give you a hint....they are horrendous.

Jose Santos is also riding flat out awful right now and has the numbers to prove it. He is getting left with virtually every mount and getting in trouble just as often. Shawn Bridgemohan, despite hiring NY's best agent in Drew Mollica is also struggling for mounts and winning at under a 10% clip. His riding has been less than stellar.

i follow racing all over the country including ny regularly. i have tvg, a race replays account and i live 5 minutes from the track and work there everyday.........believe me finding ways to watch races is notta problem at all. you make it like ramon is riding at portland meadows or something the way you talk and its like he can do no right in your book. if he makes a mistake hes a horrible jock, if he wins you think oh well he should cuz edgar and johnny v arent in town

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

banked almost 200k for those 2 wins.............not too bad huh

Of course that's good, but not great. Saying Ramon is a better rider than Prado is ridiculous.

Look what Prado banked last year. That's what can happen when you ride on the toughest circuit in the world.

[SentToStud]

Who can fault Ramon for staying north? Gets away from PRado Cornelio, JV, Castellano, etc... and makes some good money (5th in earnings last year) doing his thing. I guess we'll see how well he does in stakes this year. If the big horse goes in the Donn, it'll be interesting to see what other rides he picks up that day.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

i follow racing all over the country including ny regularly. i have tvg, a race replays account and i live 5 minutes from the track and work there everyday.........believe me finding ways to watch races is notta problem at all. you make it like ramon is riding at portland meadows or something the way you talk and its like he can do no right in your book. if he makes a mistake hes a horrible jock, if he wins you think oh well he should cuz edgar and johnny v arent in town

None of this is either relevant or makes a lot of sense. The simple fact is you defended the NY riding colony by citing, first, Mike Smith who Stevie Wonder could see is riding poorly. Then you went to Santos, who ANYONE following NY knows is hopeless, and then Bridgemohan who through even a quick appraisal of his numbers is obviously struggling.

Once again, nobody said Dominguez is a " horrible jock ", and you accusing people of that only weakens any argument you are trying to make. What was accurately pointed out here was that Dominguez gave an extraordinarily puzzling ride. These comments were proven out when the trainer of the horse involved, Gary Contessa, went on the record ( with Steve Byk ) blasting the ride, and Dominguez himself apologized profusely.The fact that you need to continue to claim what was said was incorrect flies in the face of all reason and sanity.

The simple truth is that when the big boys come back to NY Dominguez returns to a lesser curcuit. Until he stays in NY and competes successfully at the highest level he cannot prove to be one of the best riders in the country. This does not make him a bad rider just as your claims don't make him an exceptional one.

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out how Ramon is better than Prado or Prado is better than Ramon. They ride on completely different cirquits. It isn't like they go head to head each race. If they switch places does Ramon do the same, better or worse and the same for Prado. Very hard to say who is better than who when you get to that level.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I am still scratching my head trying to figure out how Ramon is better than Prado or Prado is better than Ramon. They ride on completely different cirquits. It isn't like they go head to head each race. If they switch places does Ramon do the same, better or worse and the same for Prado. Very hard to say who is better than who when you get to that level.

I judge greatness mostly by how they've performed in TC, BC and other major races.

[ELA]

When you are talking about Prado and Dominguez, you are talking about two different kind of riders and who are at different stages in their career to an extent. Prado is a superstar, period. He doesn't have a first call barn like Johnny V. does, and the guy works hard. Does he make mistakes? Of course he does, just like Bailey did, Pat Day, Cordero, Shoemaker, and everyone else who gets a leg up.

Dominguez will slowly start to get to the next level. He hasn't yet pulled the trigger and made a permanent move, but he will. There are plenty of jockeys who were 25% jocks and were the king of the hill, big fish in a small pond so to speak, who left and didn't find equal success. Ramon is not and will not be one of them. He can ride on any circuit. Just because he is currently not at Gulfstream, or picking up and moving to Long Island, doesn't mean he can't hack it. There are other things going on there. These people have lives, families, children, etc.

Eric

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

i dont think anyone was bashing ramon save that nucklehead ride at aq..
my top 7 jocks on any day

prado
corny
gomez
mig
jv
c nack
m padroza all hart strong hands..

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

i dont think anyone was bashing ramon save that nucklehead ride at aq..
my top 7 jocks on any day

prado
corny
gomez
mig
jv
c nack
m padroza all hart strong hands..

corny and mig are tearing it up right now.

[saucon17]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

i dont think anyone was bashing ramon save that nucklehead ride at aq..
my top 7 jocks on any day

prado
corny
gomez
mig
jv
c nack
m padroza all hart strong hands..

Why is't your boy Eddie Castro on that list, always like Marty P he will give
200% every time he rides.

Prado and most of the jocks at GP have families too.

Originally Posted by ELA

Dominguez will slowly start to get to the next level. He hasn't yet pulled the trigger and made a permanent move, but he will. There are plenty of jockeys who were 25% jocks and were the king of the hill, big fish in a small pond so to speak, who left and didn't find equal success. Ramon is not and will not be one of them. He can ride on any circuit. Just because he is currently not at Gulfstream, or picking up and moving to Long Island, doesn't mean he can't hack it. There are other things going on there. These people have lives, families, children, etc.

Eric

Originally Posted by saucon17

Why is't your boy Eddie Castro on that list, always like Marty P he will give
200% every time he rides.

Pedroza has been icy lately.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

eddie is great in givin situation....we all know what those are..

[Holland Hacker]

I'll take Prado any day over RD. I think Edgar is a great rider and is in the top 5 in the country. Ramon, is working his way into my top 10.

For my $ I'll take Edgar over Ramon every day.

My top 5 are:

John Velazquez
Edgar Prado
Garret Gomez
Javier Castellano
Russel Baze

[ELA]

I think far too many people are leaving Gomez off their list. I think he made a very loud and clear statement last year. First, as long as he stays happy, healthy, etc. -- he is at the top, and he is there to stay. Second, with Ron Anderson working for you, you have got one monster edge.

Eric

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I judge greatness mostly by how they've performed in TC, BC and other major races.

I understand that philosophy, but what if Ramon had the mounts that Prado had? If Ramon won on Barbaro does that mean he is better than Prado. This is really hard to tell when you talk about the upper level of jocks.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I understand that philosophy, but what if Ramon had the mounts that Prado had? If Ramon won on Barbaro does that mean he is better than Prado. This is really hard to tell when you talk about the upper level of jocks.

He'd have a much better shot of finding those mounts at Gulfstream and Saratoga instead of the Inner and Delaware. I'm afraid that's going to be the story of Ramon's career...What if?

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

all i hear is praises for edgar and slams on ramon. ramons definately the better rider in my book. ive seen edgar make as many bone-head decisions as any1 on the main circuit. edgar is apparently a classy person and very likeable but overrated as a rider in my book. btw i dont hear any ramon bashing after this past week

Prado and Ramon are in 2 different classes. One guy rides in the top meets and is successful....one guy is forced to ride at 3rd class meets and comes up for air to pick up scraps when the top guys go away.

As far as this week.....Ramon is riding at AQU during a time of bad racing and is getting first call mounts....sure he is gonna be successful at a meet when he is riding against the likes of Diane Nelson and Andrew Lakeman.....

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

He'd have a much better shot of finding those mounts at Gulfstream and Saratoga instead of the Inner and Delaware. I'm afraid that's going to be the story of Ramon's career...What if?

You could right. But he has a pretty good thing going at Delaware. Just like Baze--no sense of ruining a good thing. Heck, he is 1st in the nation is wins and 2nd in money earned. He will prob earn around $15mm this year. Not all that bad if you ask me.