What the 2nd Ammendment is for

[Danzig]

septicemia is the #10 cause of death in this country-1% of deaths per year is the breakdown...half of deaths in this country are from heart disease and cancers.
guns weren't on the list-altho accidents/unintended injuries was on the list...
my son did a paper the other day on legalizing marijuana. one stat he found was that 15% of deaths in the u.s. per year are alcohol related-between cirrhosis and dui-vehicle accidents....
at any rate, guns causing death wasn't even on the screen...also saw that over half of gun deaths per year were suicides. but our suicide rate is on par with other countries...

[Payson Dave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoiMDj9bSE8

[SOREHOOF]

If only someone could give me a legitimate definition of "assault weapon". She is correct about the reason for the Right to Bear Arms. Guns don't kill people, People kill people. I take full responsibility for my actions, and as an American I expect everyone else to take responsibility for their actions. I'm so sick of people making excuses and playing the blame game. If you really think our Govt. is looking out for your best interests here at home then great. This country was founded on individual freedom. Why worry about conceal carry permits? The people who have them are VERY unlikely to do you or your loved ones any harm. How about we round up some criminals for a change instead of harassing innocent law abiding citizens.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

If only someone could give me a legitimate definition of "assault weapon". She is correct about the reason for the Right to Bear Arms. Guns don't kill people, People kill people. I take full responsibility for my actions, and as an American I expect everyone else to take responsibility for their actions. I'm so sick of people making excuses and playing the blame game. If you really think our Govt. is looking out for your best interests here at home then great. This country was founded on individual freedom. Why worry about conceal carry permits? The people who have them are VERY unlikely to do you or your loved ones any harm. How about we round up some criminals for a change instead of harassing innocent law abiding citizens.

[ddthetide]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

If only someone could give me a legitimate definition of "assault weapon". She is correct about the reason for the Right to Bear Arms. Guns don't kill people, People kill people. I take full responsibility for my actions, and as an American I expect everyone else to take responsibility for their actions. I'm so sick of people making excuses and playing the blame game. If you really think our Govt. is looking out for your best interests here at home then great. This country was founded on individual freedom. Why worry about conceal carry permits? The people who have them are VERY unlikely to do you or your loved ones any harm. How about we round up some criminals for a change instead of harassing innocent law abiding citizens.

Bravo!

[SOREHOOF]

It seems O.K. to take away constitutional rights from some while creating new ones out of thin air for others. This is a serious attack on our liberty. Sometimes you have to stick up for things that don't appeal personally to yourself to preserve the rights of all Americans. Patriot Act?

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

It seems O.K. to take away constitutional rights from some while creating new ones out of thin air for others. This is a serious attack on our liberty. Sometimes you have to stick up for things that don't appeal personally to yourself to preserve the rights of all Americans. Patriot Act?

And some constitutional rights were written when people shot
balls of iron out of pieces of pipe at 10 feet. The right to protect
yourself is important.
Protect yourself with what?

I understand your concern. It is noble. I just think some situations
require understanding the technology of today, with the rights
and liberties that apply at all times.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And some constitutional rights were written when people shot
balls of iron out of pieces of pipe at 10 feet. The right to protect
yourself is important.
Protect yourself with what?

I understand your concern. It is noble. I just think some situations
require understanding the technology of today, with the rights
and liberties that apply at all times.

These "constitutional rights" were written when governments and tyrants assumed complete control over people. Doesn't any of this seem a little familiar? As for the weaponry of 230 yrs ago, you may be amazed at the functionality of these "assault weapons".

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Guns don't kill people, People kill people.

Yes indeed. Tanks dont kill people, people kill people.
In Hiroshima, the atomic weapon did not kill people, the
bombadier killed people.

There is a point were certain killing devices become too dangerous
for the general public. Primarily because they can take down
significant number of innocent folks fairly quickly.
I cant draw an exact line. But some of these
weapons sold at gun shows to people, will kill lots of people.
Quickly.

People kill people... Hell cluster bombs dont kill people, people kill people..
JEEEZZZUUUSSSSS. I will protect myself with nerve gas.

I really dont mean to make fun (ahhhh, I guess I sorta do)...
people have the right to protect themselves and family no doubt. But some
of the self defense weapons could be used to take over a small
country.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes indeed. Tanks dont kill people, people kill people.
In Hiroshima, the atomic weapon did not kill people, the
bombadier killed people.

There is a point were certain killing devices become too dangerous
for the general public. Primarily because they can take down
significant number of innocent folks fairly quickly.
I cant draw an exact line. But some of these
weapons sold at gun shows to people, will kill lots of people.
Quickly.

People kill people... Hell cluster bombs dont kill people, people kill people..
JEEEZZZUUUSSSSS. I will protect myself with nerve gas.

I really dont mean to make fun (ahhhh, I guess I sorta do)...
people have the right to protect themselves and family no doubt. But some
of the self defense weapons could be used to take over a small
country.

One nut with a box cutter can kill thousands of people. Outlaw box cutters? Thanks anyway. (people don't kill people, cops kill people). I can make a molatov cocktail out of an empty wine bottle, lets outlaw wine. It would take out a good sized crowd of people pretty quick. Let's outlaw geese.... fast, before someone gets hurt. I'm not even going to start in about anyone's pet pit bull or CHIMP. The point is,,,, take responsibility for your actions.

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

One nut with a box cutter can kill thousands of people. Outlaw box cutters? Thanks anyway. (people don't kill people, cops kill people). I can make a molatov cocktail out of an empty wine bottle, lets outlaw wine. It would take out a good sized crowd of people pretty quick. Let's outlaw geese.... fast, before someone gets hurt. I'm not even going to start in about anyone's pet pit bull or CHIMP. The point is,,,, take responsibility for your actions.

The 2nd amendment is not about taking responsibility for
your own actions. Its about the right to take up arms
in certain situations. And those situations should not be interpreted
as taking up "arms" on aircraft with people
all squished together that cannot get away.
Places where box cutters and firebombs would not be used
for protection. BTW, malatov cocktails are not good defensive weapons.
A handgun would be much more
effective.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

If only someone could give me a legitimate definition of "assault weapon". She is correct about the reason for the Right to Bear Arms. Guns don't kill people, People kill people. I take full responsibility for my actions, and as an American I expect everyone else to take responsibility for their actions. I'm so sick of people making excuses and playing the blame game. If you really think our Govt. is looking out for your best interests here at home then great. This country was founded on individual freedom. Why worry about conceal carry permits? The people who have them are VERY unlikely to do you or your loved ones any harm. How about we round up some criminals for a change instead of harassing innocent law abiding citizens.

Is this supposed to be some sort of an attempt at a logical argument, or is it just a bunch of nonsensical NRA bumper sticker slogans strung together in paragraph form?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Is this supposed to be some sort of an attempt at a logical argument, or is it just a bunch of nonsensical NRA bumper sticker slogans strung together in paragraph form?

sigh...thank you

[dellinger63]

I'm a gun rights supporter but don't think anyone outside of law enforcement or military should be able to own assault or fully auto weapons. I can also go with low capacity magazines as no one needs to be firing 15 bullets at a time either. I don't have kids and still have my guns (all handguns) locked in a safe which is locked in a cabinet. I no longer live in a high crime area like I did when I was in Evanston IL. If I did have kids around I'd do away with them though as they'd be 'apples off the tree' and they'd find a way to the keys and into the safe. Also if I was as big as GBbob I could probably make due with pure intimidation. Still not sure about the carry/conceal laws but firmly believe one should be able to defend their home with guns if they choose. I understand the argument if they take assault weapons away semi-autos are next and pistols after that. But with some assurances from the anti-gun crowd many would agree with strictor gun policies. I'd also agree to 'chipping' my guns with GPS devices in the event they were stolen. This probably won't make either side happy.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I'm a gun rights supporter but don't think anyone outside of law enforcement or military should be able to own assault or fully auto weapons. I can also go with low capacity magazines as no one needs to be firing 15 bullets at a time either. I don't have kids and still have my guns (all handguns) locked in a safe which is locked in a cabinet. I no longer live in a high crime area like I did when I was in Evanston IL. If I did have kids around I'd do away with them though as they'd be 'apples off the tree' and they'd find a way to the keys and into the safe. Also if I was as big as GBbob I could probably make due with pure intimidation. Still not sure about the carry/conceal laws but firmly believe one should be able to defend their home with guns if they choose. I understand the argument if they take assault weapons away semi-autos are next and pistols after that. But with some assurances from the anti-gun crowd many would agree with strictor gun policies. I'd also agree to 'chipping' my guns with GPS devices in the event they were stolen. This probably won't make either side happy.

Realistically, I would want an assault weapon in defense against a "home invasion", and handguns as a last line of defense. Life(my familys) is precious
to me...if someone crosses that line....

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Is this supposed to be some sort of an attempt at a logical argument, or is it just a bunch of nonsensical NRA bumper sticker slogans strung together in paragraph form?

No. It IS a logical argument. I'm not a member of the NRA, yet. I don't own an assault weapon,yet. I don't even own a hand gun,yet. I'm more concerned about my neighbor's 2 pit bulls running loose through my yard than his assault weapon. Danzig hit it on the head. It' about personal freedom. By the way I would have guessed 0 for your dad, but I've been away. I have a shotgun that may qualify as an assault weapon to people who know little or nothing about guns, such as politicians and anti-gun crusaders.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

No. It IS a logical argument. I'm not a member of the NRA, yet. I don't own an assault weapon,yet. I don't even own a hand gun,yet. I'm more concerned about my neighbor's 2 pit bulls running loose through my yard than his assault weapon. Danzig hit it on the head. It' about personal freedom. By the way I would have guessed 0 for your dad, but I've been away. I have a shotgun that may qualify as an assault weapon to people who know little or nothing about guns, such as politicians and anti-gun crusaders.

This always gets me...Are you for smoking in public places, no seat belt laws and open intoxicants in cars?

When "personal freedoms" become a threat or expense to me, then they are no longer that....and what the NRA wants qualifies as that, to me.

And yes....your shotgun is not an assault weapon. But would you own one if given the opportunity?

[Payson Dave]

smoking in public places can affect others... drinking and driving can affect others.... law abiding citizens with no criminal background possessing a semi-automatic weapon does not affect others