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#21
10-15-2006, 04:20 PM
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Smarty. I am going to meet him in the spring.
 
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#22
10-15-2006, 04:43 PM
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errr... I am still bitter against Bailey for that ride.
I was driving a friend to the airport this past Wednesday and he got a call from Mr Jerry Bailey while in my car. After he hung up I said, "I dont like Jerry and I will never like him after that ride in the Belmont causing Smarty Jones to lose the triple crown. He thought I was nuts for still being bitter, but I am from the PHILLY area and I will always be bitter... whether the Eagles or Smarty Jones... Anywayz, both Smarty and Afleet Alex were the class of their triple crown division in their respective years. I would have been happy to have seen them both as TC winners, and I cant differenciate between one or the other because they both had bad trips on the races they lost an probably would both be TC winners if otherwise.
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#23
10-15-2006, 05:42 PM
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well, smarty ran a game second in his tc loss, while alex was third in his....also, alex wasn't 'ganged up on' while smarty was...and then of course smarty won the biggest of the three. i think smarty was the better horse, never an off day in his two year (and too short) career.
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#24
10-15-2006, 07:27 PM
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great first post, Heather! Thanks for the article, too, it sure is a good one. Hope you enjoy the board.
__________________
"Boston fans hate the Yankees, we hate the Canadiens and we hate the Lakers. It's in our DNA. It just is." - Bill Simmons
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#26
10-15-2006, 08:47 PM
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http://nebraska.statepaper.com/vnews...=40c58d8496a95
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#27
10-15-2006, 08:48 PM
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I'm going to go with the Smarty camp here. This was an undefeated animal who won most efforts by open lengths. Birdstone was a 3 time G1 winner and received the gift of the pace duel and Stewie's ride. Even with that, Smarty was 6 lengths clear of the 3rd.
That said, I think Alex would have won the Derby if he had stayed wider. The rail was dead all week at Churchill and Alex made his move down inside. Watch the tape when Rose reaches even terms with the other two inside the 1/8th pole. Rose goes with the right handed whip, Alex goes in a little and slows.
__________________
Do I think Charity can win? Well, I am walking around in yesterday's suit.
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#28
10-15-2006, 08:56 PM
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#29
10-15-2006, 09:50 PM
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Smarty was unfairly sabotaged in the Belmont, but Afleet Alex ran on a dead rail for most of the Derby, and they both missed the TC by just a length. I'm gonna give Smarty the slight nod, because the circumstance that cost him the TC is a much more tangible than the one that cost 'Alex. While I don't dispute that the rail was dead that day at CD, who knows how much it cost him and HOW dead it was? Smarty, on the other hand, was clearly sabotaged and it certainly cost him the TC in my eyes. Very good post.
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#30
10-15-2006, 10:19 PM
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unfairly sabotaged? Ive never heard of anything as ridiculous ateam. the other jocks tried to do what they could to get him beat, but thats not unfair. thats racing. its not lke Zito or the whitneys paid off the other contestants. He got beat by a better horse. A Travers winner. no different than when VGallop beat RQuiet or when Touch Gold beat SCharm. Repent
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#31
10-15-2006, 10:46 PM
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same rhetoric the smarty party always uses, and they never say anything of substance. The Stone and lucky jones met one time on a dry track, and The Stone beat him. lucky needed a wet track to beat him. and Bailey would not lower himself to riding on that PA bred. he had real horses to ride. Repent
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#32
10-15-2006, 11:02 PM
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Why should we care?
Why are we trying to even answer a question like this? It's history and it is what it is. Neither horse won the triple crown and both won two legs and fininshed in the money in the one leg that they missed.
It's already in the books. Is the real question who was better Smarty Jones or Afleet Alex? NC Tony
__________________
"Now back to you Win Elliott" FC
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#33
10-15-2006, 11:03 PM
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Just nod and pretend to agree with Repent
 You're not going to win this one with him, its been going on for a long time now and nothing has changed...
__________________
Reppin the Duquesne University class of 2009 . (Then its time to get a real job  )I cant believe what a bunch of nerds we are. We're looking up money laundering in the dictionary. www.myspace.com/dustinfabian
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#34
10-15-2006, 11:03 PM
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and that Belmont run was the most courageous you have seen? lmao, did you not see PEnsign's BC Distaff win? how about any of Giants Causeway's wins during that incredible win streak? or either one of Tiznow's BCC wins? or Storm Flag Flying's BCJF win? you see, all these horses WON. lucky jones LOST. if you want to talk about amazing performances in a losing effort, check out Rock of Gibraltar's BCMile run. or Falbrav's BCTurf loss. or Swain's Dubai World Cup loss to Silver Charm. all much more impressive performances and displays of "courage". Repent
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#35
10-15-2006, 11:04 PM
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It's in the books, but you want to know which one was "better"? I think this is a much more interesting and productive thread, as "Who was closer to the TC?" is easier to define and less subjective than "Who was better?" Besides, we already have enough "Who's better than who" threads around here and they get nowhere.
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#36
10-15-2006, 11:09 PM
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to quote Ed Vedder, nothing has changed but the surrounding bull sh*t, that has grown. Repent
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#37
10-15-2006, 11:22 PM
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that The Stone was better? you are just p*sed b/c I can back that up. almost every historically significant horse has won at Belmont Racetrack. when did smarty jones do that? the Stone did it, and more than once. The Stone beat him when they met on a dry track. the Stone went on to win the Travers, which is our country's best measuring stick of top class 3YOs. look at the past winners. the Travers winners are as impressive of a group as any 3YO race run in this country. you can say that lucky jones was better. hell, you can even believe it if you want to. but the record shows us that The Stone beat him the last time they met and the one time they met on a dry track. and from a historical perspective, its not even close. The Stone rules over lucky jones. Repent
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#38
10-15-2006, 11:34 PM
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Afleet Alex was closer to winning the triple crown. If Jeremy Rose hadn't moved him to the *dead* Churchill rail, he probably would have won the Derby. He was much the best that day. I think he could have held off Giacomo closing on the outside. I like Giacomo, but I do think that on that day, Afleet Alex was the much better horse,,,just had ****ty racing luck. Which we all know is a huge part of the game.
Now, that being said, I think Smarty was a better horse. He was more deserving of the Triple Crown, but, the way the race set up, there was just NO WAY he beats Birdstone that day. Like many, I think it was because of the way he was double-teamed,,,,but I really can't take anything away from Birdstone on that day. And double-teaming is legal, just like running rabbits. I STILL cry big ole crocodile tears when I watch that Belmont replay. Actually, I have a real hard time watching it. Broke my heart!! Suzanne
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#39
10-15-2006, 11:39 PM
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Easily Smarty. I don't think that Alex was the best horse in his loss. I thought Smarty was. I don't think it's even close. I felt that Smarty was 3x the horse Alex was, maybe more.
__________________
The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine
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#40
10-15-2006, 11:56 PM
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the Travers track was listed as "fast". the rain came after the race that day. but Im not even sayng The Stone hated an off track. what I am saying is that the one time they met on a dry track, The Stone beat him. new to the sport? maybe, depends on perspective. but the verification of your expertise relies on someone else, anyone else, agreeing with your opinion. what the hell kind of sense does that make. I oay the b*tch next door to say that Birdstone was a better horse. that does not make it any more true or false. and you want me to find a "credible" person to say that Birdstone was not the recipient of a "dream trip"? what makes someone credible and what encompasses a dream trip? does someone on this board with x amount of posts make them credible? do they need to be a full time writer with the Daily Racing Form? or can they be a degenerate at Manor Downs that i see when I stop by to pick up a form? your position is full of holes and all the smarty party agreeing with you will not make it any stronger. Birdstone got the right pace scenario he needed to be most effective on Belmont Stakes day. so what? it does not make his win any less valid than if smarty jones had won the race while getting an easy lead. stop worrying about my experience within the game or my historical perspective. they are not relevant to the argument at hand. like I said, nothing has changed but the surrounding bullsh*t that has grown. Ed was right on point with that one. Repent
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) - kind of 'puts you right there' - and it's a reminder of the incredible race that he ran. I agree with other posts I've seen here saying that the Belmont was his best race, and one of the best efforts by any racehorse that I've ever seen.
I think he was far superior to the two good horses you named.
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