A 2nd BC Day?

[pmayjr]

Before the backlash starts... hear me out.

BC Day- as long as it is, I still think is missing 2 key races, and you could make the agrument for a few more. The Fillie and Mare Mile, and the Fillie and Mare Sprint are two that are deserving additions IMO.

So with that being said, why not do something like what Lone Star did a couple of eyars ago- Have a big day the day before the BC. They had a special running of the Lone Star Derby and had a couple of other stakes races that day.

But just put those 2 races on Friday at the host track. ESPN is doing wall 2 wall coverage anyway, so it'll still get TV prominence and a decent handle (just like Oaks day).

You can argue that there would be $$$ issues, and maybe it would open up a can of worms like adding a Dirt Mile or a Turf Sprint. But my suggestions are just adding a female race based off of 2 races that already exist. To give them a better chance to compete. Also- I think the field sizes in the 2 events could be pretty good. Because on the male side, they're the 2 events that from year to year seem to have the most entrants.

Your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Additions? And for a select few of you- I'm eagerly awaiting the spewing of negativity on your ends.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

No to F&M Mile...yes to flat dirt mile. No to F&M Sprint...maybe to turf sprint

[ateamstupid]

I think it makes more sense to add the necessary races (Dirt Mile, F&M Sprint, F&M Mile are what I would add) on the same day. The allure of the BC, I think, is that it's the culmination of the entire racing year all on one day.. It's succinct and still important, as opposed to the TC, which takes place over five weeks.

I agree that more races need to be added, but I think making a "BC day B" or something to that end somewhat defeats the purpose of BC day.

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Before the backlash starts... hear me out.

BC Day- as long as it is, I still think is missing 2 key races, and you could make the agrument for a few more. The Fillie and Mare Mile, and the Fillie and Mare Sprint are two that are deserving additions IMO.

So with that being said, why not do something like what Lone Star did a couple of eyars ago- Have a big day the day before the BC. They had a special running of the Lone Star Derby and had a couple of other stakes races that day.

But just put those 2 races on Friday at the host track. ESPN is doing wall 2 wall coverage anyway, so it'll still get TV prominence and a decent handle (just like Oaks day).

You can argue that there would be $$$ issues, and maybe it would open up a can of worms like adding a Dirt Mile or a Turf Sprint. But my suggestions are just adding a female race based off of 2 races that already exist. To give them a better chance to compete. Also- I think the field sizes in the 2 events could be pretty good. Because on the male side, they're the 2 events that from year to year seem to have the most entrants.

Your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Additions? And for a select few of you- I'm eagerly awaiting the spewing of negativity on your ends.

Its not negativity Pmayjr, but that kinda cash doesnt come easily. And if they had it to spend, pumping up the purses of the existing races is the way to go.
A dirt mile would weaken both the classic and sprint, thats no good. Turf sprints will never be added. The BREEDERS cup's main purpose was to make stallions. Turf sprint specialists will never be worth 50 cents at stud, so you can forget them adding that on.
I think we have them all covered here. When they added the missing filly and mare turf race they covered it all.
I guess the next thing they mad add, if ever, is the filly and mare sprint. Which I could kinda see a case for, but I'm not dying to see it happen either.
I like things the way they are now. I think all the bases are covered.

[Kasept]

Topic has come up repeatedly over the years, and I brought it up on the show with an NTRA-BC guy Derby Week.. Thoro-Graph's Jerry Brown is one proponent I know of for it, and I like the idea a lot. Executionally, "they" say it's a problem for a variety of reasons (TV was the key issue), but that would seem to be less of an issue than it was when NBC had the broadcasts. If you did add a day, the logical races to add are a dirt mile and turf sprint, and possibly a juvenile (turf) mile which would attract lots of Euros.

I find BC day far too intense with the races coming way too fast to adjust to the opportunities.. If you go back a few years the races were spaced better with maybe an additional 7-9 min. between each.. TV of course found that too long a delay, so now they come at you like Jai Alai games..

Originally Posted by Kasept

Topic has come up repeatedly over the years, and I brought it up on the show with an NTRA-BC guy Derby Week.. Thoro-Graph's Jerry Brown is one proponent I know of for it, and I like the idea a lot. Executionally, "they" say it's a problem for a variety of reasons (TV was the key issue), but that would seem to be less of an issue than it was when NBC had the broadcasts. If you did add a day, the logical races to add are a dirt mile and turf sprint, and possibly a juvenile (turf) mile which would attract lots of Euros.

I find BC day far too intense with the races coming way too fast to adjust to the opportunities.. If you go back a few years the races were spaced better with maybe an additional 7-9 min. between each.. TV of course found that too long a delay, so now they come at you like Jai Alai games..

After the filly/mare turf was added, the rush increased. I am in favor of adding more races, however.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Before the backlash starts... hear me out.

BC Day- as long as it is, I still think is missing 2 key races, and you could make the agrument for a few more. The Fillie and Mare Mile, and the Fillie and Mare Sprint are two that are deserving additions IMO.

So with that being said, why not do something like what Lone Star did a couple of eyars ago- Have a big day the day before the BC. They had a special running of the Lone Star Derby and had a couple of other stakes races that day.

But just put those 2 races on Friday at the host track. ESPN is doing wall 2 wall coverage anyway, so it'll still get TV prominence and a decent handle (just like Oaks day).

You can argue that there would be $$$ issues, and maybe it would open up a can of worms like adding a Dirt Mile or a Turf Sprint. But my suggestions are just adding a female race based off of 2 races that already exist. To give them a better chance to compete. Also- I think the field sizes in the 2 events could be pretty good. Because on the male side, they're the 2 events that from year to year seem to have the most entrants.

Your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Additions? And for a select few of you- I'm eagerly awaiting the spewing of negativity on your ends.

i think they could add enough quality racing to make it a two day event. a dirt mile is a great idea, and i'd like to see a filly sprint on dirt. there is talk of expanding eclipse awards, i think they should have showcase events to go with those awards. a mile turf on fillies as well...no doubt you could get enough races. i wouldn't mind seeing another, shorter race for the 2 yo's.

[mclem10011]

Make it a BC WEEKEND Saturday and Sunday event! Or add more races to the day, how bout a nice 16 race BC card? They could throw a couple p6's in for good measure, big fields, big pools, more publicity for the sport, more wagering opportunities! WHO'S WITH ME, I SMELL A PETITION DRIVE? LOL

[mclem10011]

Originally Posted by mclem10011

Make it a BC WEEKEND Saturday and Sunday event! Or add more races to the day, how bout a nice 16 race BC card? They could throw a couple p6's in for good measure, big fields, big pools, more publicity for the sport, more wagering opportunities! WHO'S WITH ME, I SMELL A PETITION DRIVE? LOL

" I'm gonna make him an offer, he can't refuse"

[tanner12oz]

i bet theres a logical reason for the first 2 non bc races on bc day (television is my guess).....but why not scrap those 2 out of place races before the championship races begin.......then you could add an additional 2 championship races instead....what were the first 2 non bc races last year??? i think i remeber the second was a stakes race with scrappy t

BC is already up against College Football. Do you really want to take on the NFL Sunday? Or run races Friday when no one is watching?

Whomever said TV guys were against this hit it on the head. No one wants to counter program the NFL with an unpopular sport. They'll run non-sport programming since that will attract a bigger audience than the miniscule portion of the sports audience that prefers horse racing to NFL football.

This is a niche sport website. Just because the majority of posters here might think this is a good idea doesn't mean any network that tried it won't go broke.

[Suffolk Shippers]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Topic has come up repeatedly over the years, and I brought it up on the show with an NTRA-BC guy Derby Week.. Thoro-Graph's Jerry Brown is one proponent I know of for it, and I like the idea a lot. Executionally, "they" say it's a problem for a variety of reasons (TV was the key issue), but that would seem to be less of an issue than it was when NBC had the broadcasts. If you did add a day, the logical races to add are a dirt mile and turf sprint, and possibly a juvenile (turf) mile which would attract lots of Euros.

I find BC day far too intense with the races coming way too fast to adjust to the opportunities.. If you go back a few years the races were spaced better with maybe an additional 7-9 min. between each.. TV of course found that too long a delay, so now they come at you like Jai Alai games..

Amen on this. If there was an hour between races I would feel rushed. It's tough to identify true winning oppourtunities on BC day, so you really need to pick your spots carefully ahead of time. I usually focus on 3 or 4 races I think I can make some fair coin and maybe one of the pick 4's where value can be had.

I also played an angle last year in the turf where I boxed the Euros for the super. It paid quite handsomely. So, in addition to fair preparation, a little lady luck is also needed.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Its not negativity Pmayjr, but that kinda cash doesnt come easily. And if they had it to spend, pumping up the purses of the existing races is the way to go.
A dirt mile would weaken both the classic and sprint, thats no good. Turf sprints will never be added. The BREEDERS cup's main purpose was to make stallions. Turf sprint specialists will never be worth 50 cents at stud, so you can forget them adding that on.
I think we have them all covered here. When they added the missing filly and mare turf race they covered it all.
I guess the next thing they mad add, if ever, is the filly and mare sprint. Which I could kinda see a case for, but I'm not dying to see it happen either.
I like things the way they are now. I think all the bases are covered.

I have to agree wither everything.

[pmayjr]

Chromer hit it on the head with not going up against the NFL on Sunday. It you do a 2nd day- it's gotta be Friday. That's why I borught up "Oaks day"... as in Kentucky Oaks. ESPN covers that with decent ratings and coverage. It wouldn't get the attention and handle, but I think it would be comparable to Kentucky Oaks day.

As for a F&M sprint, and an F&M mile. I think the fields sizes and quality still would be pretty good. As I meantioned in the first post- those are the 2 races from year to year who usually attract the largest fields. I don't think that has too much to do with fillies and mares entering those races either. Because they might get 2 per year in those races?

Since it is a day for the Breeders, and to find out whom should be breeding based off those races- you wanna see who some nice bullet fast mares are who can romp goin 1:08 and change right? A dirt mile would dilute things, a F&M Mile and Sprint I don't think would.

[Danzig]

maybe a three race warm up on friday nights...

i really don't see any changes tho.

I think one day is fine seeing that "we" already have to go up against college football.

Get rid of: The 2 Juvy races

The changes: The classic goes 1.5 miles on the dirt (attract Euros) and then a 1 mile on the dirt. If you have a mile on the dirt and a mile and a quarter on the dirt, they run into each other. Also maybe we might get some distance horses here that dont have great speed trying it out.

Also add a 5 f on the turf.

So change the classic a furlong longer, get rid of destructive two year old races. Replace with a mile on the dirt, and a 5 furlong on the grass.

It'll never happen. We must have our investments pay dividends now. Owners cant hold back showing off a two year old. Same old "I got to have it now mommy." Slap that kid upside the head, wait your turn.

[repent]

dont add anything.

take out the Breeders Cup Juvenile Fillies.
run 1 race for 2YOs and do it at 8f.
no need for these dirt 2YOs horses to go 2 turns yet.

if you do want to add a race,
add a 2Yo turf race at 8f.

that way you still have 2 juvenile races. 2YO fillies can run against males at that age.

if you do add a 8f dirt race for 3YOs and up, then you have to move the BC Distaff to 10f.

you cant have 2 dirt races at that close of a distance for the same horses.


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[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think one day is fine seeing that "we" already have to go up against college football.

Get rid of: The 2 Juvy races

The changes: The classic goes 1.5 miles on the dirt (attract Euros) and then a 1 mile on the dirt. If you have a mile on the dirt and a mile and a quarter on the dirt, they run into each other. Also maybe we might get some distance horses here that dont have great speed trying it out.

Also add a 5 f on the turf.

So change the classic a furlong longer, get rid of destructive two year old races. Replace with a mile on the dirt, and a 5 furlong on the grass.

It'll never happen. We must have our investments pay dividends now. Owners cant hold back showing off a two year old. Same old "I got to have it now mommy." Slap that kid upside the head, wait your turn.

I agree with the first part, strongly disagree with the second. If we make the Classic a twelve-furlong race, then the Dirt Mile would become the new BCC. We don't train our horses to run 12 furlongs on dirt.. It's hard enough to get them to run 10.

I don't understand the popular demand for a turf sprint.. Who exactly are these superstar turf horses who are being shut out because the Mile is too far???

Necessity (in order) calls for a F/M Sprint (think of how many graded F/M sprint races there are in the U.S.), a dirt mile because of the 'tweeners that American racing breeds, and a F/M Turf Mile. I think a Juvenile turf race would be pointless, as it would be ALL Europeans.

[repent]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I agree with the first part, strongly disagree with the second. If we make the Classic a twelve-furlong race, then the Dirt Mile would become the new BCC. We don't train our horses to run 12 furlongs on dirt.. It's hard enough to get them to run 10.

I don't understand the popular demand for a turf sprint.. Who exactly are these superstar turf horses who are being shut out because the Mile is too far???

Necessity (in order) calls for a F/M Sprint (think of how many graded F/M sprint races there are in the U.S.), a dirt mile because of the 'tweeners that American racing breeds, and a F/M Turf Mile. I think a Juvenile turf race would be pointless, as it would be ALL Europeans.

not true.

lots of good 2YO turf runners.
but b/c of the BC structure, most of the 2YO turf stakes occur at Laurel, Calder, or HW after the BC.


and what would be bad about a BC race with half the field being Euros?
its the World Championships and it may give European trainers another reason to bring their OTHER horses over for the BC Mile, Turf, and FM Turf.

regardless,
its not a priority.
what really needs to occur is the elimination of the BC Juvemile Fillies and a cut back in distance to 8f.
if you want to add a race to replace the BCJF, then add an 8f dirt race or a 2YO turf race.
but if you are going to add a dirt Mile, then you have to increase the BC Distaff to 10f.


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[ateamstupid]

Name me one American juvenile turf horse. If you had to think for more than three seconds, there shouldn't be a juvenile turf race here.