Cliff Lee

[Antitrust32]

McNabb benched this sunday for the one and only Rex Grossman..

oh, sweet vindication.

McNabb is a great guy... but nobody should feel sorry for a man who's made more than 100 million dollars by not winning big games.

[slotdirt]

Redskins fans (if there are any left) are collectively saying "WTF?" right now. I get benching the guy, but for Rex Grossman? Shanahan has seen Rex Grossman play, right? What an awful job he's done this year.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Are you saying that, say, Felix Hernandez's stats weren't any good last year because he got to pitch against AL West opponents a bunch of times? If so, then you're basically insinuating that basically every baseball statistic in history is meaningless. Good luck with that argument.

you are the one who looked at the Halladay stats from this past year.. picked out the ERA+ stat and made it seem like 2010 Halladay NL East year didnt compare with Maddux when it is easy to see that it did (minus those 95-96 Maddux years where he was out of this world).

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Redskins fans (if there are any left) are collectively saying "WTF?" right now. I get benching the guy, but for Rex Grossman? Shanahan has seen Rex Grossman play, right? What an awful job he's done this year.

Shanahan should have stuck with Jason Campbell (who is no better or worse than Low Throw McBlow).. kept his 2nd and 3rd round picks to get players who will impact the team in the future.. and then went for Luck/Mallet/Locker in April 2011.

Hindsight is always 20/20.. but it was apparent how this would work out as soon as the trade was announced. Big Andy Reid pulled one over on the Skins (though i still think it was a terrible idea to deal him to a division rival no matter what has happened since)

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Are you saying that, say, Felix Hernandez's stats weren't any good last year because he got to pitch against AL West opponents a bunch of times? If so, then you're basically insinuating that basically every baseball statistic in history is meaningless. Good luck with that argument.

No, not what i said. Are you saying that his stats wouldn't be more impressive if he pitched for toronto last year instead of seattle?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Shanahan should have stuck with Jason Campbell (who is no better or worse than Low Throw McBlow).. kept his 2nd and 3rd round picks to get players who will impact the team in the future.. and then went for Luck/Mallet/Locker in April 2011.

Hindsight is always 20/20.. but it was apparent how this would work out as soon as the trade was announced. Big Andy Reid pulled one over on the Skins (though i still think it was a terrible idea to deal him to a division rival no matter what has happened since)

Maybe big Andy isnt such a bad coach/gm after all?

What Mcnabb did this year has nothing to do with what he did for 10 years in philly. He is not what he was and im sure you can agree with that.

Reid got out while the getting was good.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Maybe big Andy isnt such a bad coach/gm after all?

What Mcnabb did this year has nothing to do with what he did for 10 years in philly. He is not what he was and im sure you can agree with that.

Reid got out while the getting was good.

he is a shell of his former 2000-2005 self, yes. But he's been on the decline since then. He just had a lot better guys around him and a top o-line to work with (except for '09). Once he decided he didnt want to be a "black qb" and stop running.. he was average. Terribly inaccurate. & maybe not the brightest qb to ever play the game. Has he ever won a championship in his career? in HS? I know he choked at 'cuse too..

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

McNabb benched this sunday for the one and only Rex Grossman..

oh, sweet vindication.

McNabb is a great guy... but nobody should feel sorry for a man who's made more than 100 million dollars by not winning big games.

I take that back... now that I read he will be 3rd string behind rex and john beck... i kinda feel bad for the guy.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No, not what i said. Are you saying that his stats wouldn't be more impressive if he pitched for toronto last year instead of seattle?

Impossible to know. I'd think it would be possible that facing the same team many more times over the course of a given year would equalize, in the case of a Toronto starting pitcher, the number of times that pitcher has to face a lineup like the Yankees or Rays. Moreover, we're talking about pitchers who only play 35 games maximum over the course of a 162 game season. Unbalanced schedules would seem to be statistically irrelevant when it comes to starting pitchers.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Impossible to know. I'd think it would be possible that facing the same team many more times over the course of a given year would equalize, in the case of a Toronto starting pitcher, the number of times that pitcher has to face a lineup like the Yankees or Rays. Moreover, we're talking about pitchers who only play 35 games maximum over the course of a 162 game season. Unbalanced schedules would seem to be statistically irrelevant when it comes to starting pitchers.

Do you think that maybe you should re-think this last sentence?

[slotdirt]

Not really. You're talking about 35 games, and in the case of the AL, that means 10 more games against division rivals than other members of the league. Throw in the two different stints of interleague play, and the pitcher who threw the most innings and made the most starts on the Blue Jays in 2010 pitched as many games against Texas (3) as he did the Devil Rays or the Yankees, but one less than he got to throw against...the Orioles.

Care to rethink your understanding of basic stats, dalakhani?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Not really. You're talking about 35 games, and in the case of the AL, that means 10 more games against division rivals than other members of the league. Throw in the two different stints of interleague play, and the pitcher who threw the most innings and made the most starts on the Blue Jays in 2010 pitched as many games against Texas (3) as he did the Devil Rays or the Yankees, but one less than he got to throw against...the Orioles.

Care to rethink your understanding of basic stats, dalakhani?

That would be the case if a pitcher truly pitched every fifth day but that isn't reality. Rotations are shaken up throughout the 6 month season due to injury, performance or matchup.

By the way, how is Michael Vick doing this year?

[slotdirt]

What does that have to do with anything? Great deflection.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

What does that have to do with anything? Great deflection.

If you aren't bright enough to understand that the ace of a staff is going to face the teams in his division more than the teams in other divisions and why that happens, I can't help you. If you can't understand that this will seriously impact that pitcher's stats, I can't help you.

Lets look at Halladays starts last year:

s. ARI 1.00 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 9.0 6 1 1 0 0 9 .188
vs. ATL 1.44 3 0 0 0 3 3 2 25.0 17 4 4 2 4 17 .198
vs. BOS 9.53 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 5.2 8 7 6 1 2 1 .320
vs. CHC 7.50 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 6.0 7 6 5 2 0 3 .292
vs. CIN 2.12 0 1 0 0 2 2 1 17.0 18 4 4 2 1 19 .273
vs. COL 1.26 1 0 0 0 2 2 0 14.1 15 3 2 0 3 13 .273
vs. FLA 1.66 4 1 0 0 5 5 1 38.0 29 7 7 3 2 41 .210
vs. HOU 1.69 1 1 0 0 2 2 1 16.0 13 4 3 2 0 14 .224
vs. LAD 3.86 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 10 3 3 1 1 4 .370
vs. MIL 5.14 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 7 4 4 4 2 6 .250
vs. MIN 3.38 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 8.0 11 4 3 2 0 8 .344
vs. NYM 2.56 4 0 0 0 4 4 1 31.2 24 9 9 1 2 28 .207
vs. NYY 9.00 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 6.0 8 6 6 3 2 5 .320
vs. PIT 2.00 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 9.0 9 2 2 0 1 6 .250
vs. SDG 2.57 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 10 2 2 0 1 7 .333
vs. SFO 6.43 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 10 5 5 1 0 5 .333
vs. STL 1.29 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 7 2 1 0 3 9 .250
vs. TOR 0.00 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 6 0 0 0 1 4 .231
vs. WAS 0.39 3 0 0 0 3 3 1 23.0 16 1 1 0 5 20 .198


Notice a pattern there? Halladay started more than two times against only 4 teams. THEY WERE ALL IN HIS DIVISION.

[clyde]

snot alert!!


snot alert!!

[philcski]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

This all leads to the most important question:

Better pitcher: Jerry Koosman or Catfish Hunter?

Hunter and it isn't even close, despite the fact that Kooz played for my beloved Mets and Hunter played for those guys in the Bronx.


On topic, who cares where the Phillies' rotation ranks all time? I care about RIGHT NOW, and they are 1/5 to win a WS in the next 3 years. My team is 50/1 for the same span.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by philcski

Hunter and it isn't even close, despite the fact that Kooz played for my beloved Mets and Hunter played for those guys in the Bronx.


On topic, who cares where the Phillies' rotation ranks all time? I care about RIGHT NOW, and they are 1/5 to win a WS in the next 3 years. My team is 50/1 for the same span.

Will the bullpen be the question?

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

If you aren't bright enough to understand that the ace of a staff is going to face the teams in his division more than the teams in other divisions and why that happens, I can't help you. If you can't understand that this will seriously impact that pitcher's stats, I can't help you.

Lets look at Halladays starts last year:

s. ARI 1.00 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 9.0 6 1 1 0 0 9 .188
vs. ATL 1.44 3 0 0 0 3 3 2 25.0 17 4 4 2 4 17 .198
vs. BOS 9.53 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 5.2 8 7 6 1 2 1 .320
vs. CHC 7.50 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 6.0 7 6 5 2 0 3 .292
vs. CIN 2.12 0 1 0 0 2 2 1 17.0 18 4 4 2 1 19 .273
vs. COL 1.26 1 0 0 0 2 2 0 14.1 15 3 2 0 3 13 .273
vs. FLA 1.66 4 1 0 0 5 5 1 38.0 29 7 7 3 2 41 .210
vs. HOU 1.69 1 1 0 0 2 2 1 16.0 13 4 3 2 0 14 .224
vs. LAD 3.86 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 10 3 3 1 1 4 .370
vs. MIL 5.14 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 7 4 4 4 2 6 .250
vs. MIN 3.38 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 8.0 11 4 3 2 0 8 .344
vs. NYM 2.56 4 0 0 0 4 4 1 31.2 24 9 9 1 2 28 .207
vs. NYY 9.00 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 6.0 8 6 6 3 2 5 .320
vs. PIT 2.00 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 9.0 9 2 2 0 1 6 .250
vs. SDG 2.57 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 10 2 2 0 1 7 .333
vs. SFO 6.43 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 10 5 5 1 0 5 .333
vs. STL 1.29 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 7 2 1 0 3 9 .250
vs. TOR 0.00 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 7.0 6 0 0 0 1 4 .231
vs. WAS 0.39 3 0 0 0 3 3 1 23.0 16 1 1 0 5 20 .198


Notice a pattern there? Halladay started more than two times against only 4 teams. THEY WERE ALL IN HIS DIVISION.

Of course any given pitcher has a higher likelihood to pitch against division rivals in an unbalanced schedule. The question is whether that obvious point is statistically relevant, something you clearly have failed to grasp when discussing a sport that relies more on statistics than any other sport on the planet.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Of course any given pitcher has a higher likelihood to pitch against division rivals in an unbalanced schedule. The question is whether that obvious point is statistically relevant, something you clearly have failed to grasp when discussing a sport that relies more on statistics than any other sport on the planet.

LOL If one guy pitches a majority of his starts against the yanks, rays and red sox and the other guy pitches a a majority of his starts against the nationals, marlins and mets...

And you don't think there is statistical relevancy? This is dumb.